Its his most damaging combo for no meter. With meter, and if the other player is cornered, it’s the same combo but FADC looped with sonic boom. After the first rep, scaling plays in, so maybe it’d be worth it to skip s.MP and just straight s.HP xx HK Legs.
I just did a little practice in the training room and though I’m not very good at it yet the damage seems to make it worth learning. I really like the cst.HK, cst.HP against Seth. I did FA3, LP Tanden, cst.HK, cst.HP xx Sonic Boom xx FA2, LP Tanden, cst.HK, cst.HP xx Sonic Boom xx FA2, LP Tanden, cst.HK, cst.HP xx Hyakuretsu, Stomps, Dive Kick in the corner for 499 dmg and 790 something stun. I had selected Ultra 1, but I’m interested in what the dmg with Ultra 2 would be. Anyway it looks pretty brutal, which makes it cool. If I could land it in match that would be awesome.
How do you combo/link st.HK (the two hits right?) into st.HP? I’ve seen this on a poongko video and tried it myself but it never worked.
It only works on Seth and you have to land a Tanden Engine first. Other than that it’s just timing the link properly. I think it’s a 2 frame link?
^^It also works on Crouch Sakura & Dan, but that’s combo video talk :P^^
Regarding Close MP -> Close HP
Already done the list, each character will have a section called “Tanden Bonus” which lists a few staple character specific combos such as the link above, it will vary as some character you can do a great deal more on. This area will also feature some character specific combos not reliant on Tanden Engine.
Regarding Combo -> FADC -> Crouc HP
I’ve also compiled this, though the characters it works on are limited, it is still useful & you can still go in to stomps on any character it works on, you simply have to use MP SRK rather than LP SRK. In my opinion, if an FADC does more than 100 damage extra then it’s worth mentioning. seth strongest punish (Out of corner) after Tanden does about 290, this combo does about 420. this can also be hit confirmed, & end in a mix up situation.
I’ve also tested the novel EX Sonic Boom -> Ultra 2 link… Which came up short on all about 8 characters… Even then the timing is so stringent i don’t think i’ll be adding it as a viable combo. Until i tried it on Cammy, to whom, if you can combo in to EX Sonic Boom in nearly any way shape or form (Tanden, cross up, jump in, empty jump in) then you can link in to it. It’s about as difficult as a 3 frame link. (An oddly timed three frame link)
Also, thanks Godot, that’s going to be a big help. & yeah Stand HK -> Stand HP is a 2 framer, you can also do it after a sonic boom -> FADC, but you have to walk forward slightly.
No problem. And what?! you can do it against Sakura and Dan when they’re crouching? nice…speaking of Dan. I think I put this under the match up notes even though it’s really not very useful information, but if you do Ultra 2 at point blank and he counters with Ultra 1 it trades and you both take like 10 dmg or something. I was playing against a Dan the other night and that happened, and it really caught me off guard. Looks pretty funny
his super trades with Ultra 2, that would make it the only projectile that can trade… Then again Dans’ Ultra is pretty iffy, hell you hit him at a certain time the projectile doesn’t even come out.
Kens U2 VS Seths U2 is still the best though 
Haha yeah it looks pretty funny when ken counters your Ultra 2 with his. It’s a shame that cst.HK, cst.HP only works when Sakura or Dan are crouching. Really limits the usefulness since you can’t do it after a Tanden or multiple times. Maybe if you lay the pressure down they’ll crouch-block and you can use it then. I have a feeling I’ll never get to use this combo in an actual match because I don’t tend to run into any Seths, but it looks really cool.
OK, so my DVD player has packed up, it’s not playing recordable DVD’s anymore. For the moment this makes the video out of the question, i only managed to record a few combos before it packed in.
Nevertheless i’m still working on the Match-up thread, so we’re not at a complete loss.
OK, so here’s a sample of what the character sections will look like, i’ll add some notes in brackets to explain waht everything means. If anyone feels it’s to confusing then let me know & i’ll try to simplify it. That said alot of the stuff that is notarised is slightly varying info on every character. so the actual match-up thread will have a small glossary section explaining the terms (not to many terms, just a few standard ones.)
I have a feeling i might have made this too detailed.
Abel
Spoiler
Stomp Sets* (This section explains what type of stomp rythm to use against each character)*
B&B1: Simple
**B&B2: **Yes + Delay
Corner: Simple
(B&B 1 is the crouch HP -> SRK -> Stomps, simple is the standard rythm for stomps)
(B&B2 is Crouch HP -> two SRK’s -> stomps, “Yes” means you can do it, “Yes + Delay” means that if you delay the second SRK slightly, then if you dash after the reset it will not cross under.[normally it would])
(Simple is the standard rythm for corner stomps, most character are simple, ones like Cammy are delayed)
Hopefully by the time i’ll finish this i’ll be able to make the stomp timing videos to accompany this sections
Tanden Bonus* (This section shows you post-tanden specific combos that can be done on the character [such as Close MP -> Close HP for example])*
Link to stand fierce after 2 light attacks.
Focus Fighting*(This section shows what happens at times when both of you focus, what options you have if your opponent releases first, or you do.)*
**Seth Striking: **Always
(This means you opponent has released focus first, & hit your armour, then backdashed, Always means that Seth’s focus will always hit Abel after he has backdashed, no matter what range)
Seth Evading: Miss
(this means that Seth has hit Abels armour, then backdashed. miss means that Abels released focus can never hit Seth after a backdash)
Bonus Safe jump set ups*(This section shows character specific Safe Jumps, not standard ones such as SPD -> Dash -> Jump in)*
Post Hyakaretsu (Mid screen) – Back wall jump.
Back Throw (Mid Screen) – Back Wall jump
Double Wall Jump Safe Jump * (<- Can’t be assed to go in to this now, easier to explain with a video.)*
Moves - Specials & Counters* (This section lists each special the opponent has & whether they are punishable, or what options you have during or after them.*
*** - Moves with this at the end are viable wake-up options.**
**Marseilles Roll – **No invulnerability on start-up & can be thrown during, Tanden Engine is also classed as a throw & will catch him during. (EX Tanden engine does not work)
*EX – **Invulnerability on start-up.
Change of Direction (CoD/Rekka) – Punishable on block with SPD, though he can FADC out to make it safe.
*EX – **Armour up to first strike
**Sky Fall (Air Throw) – **low priority, rarely used out of combo, potential to catch wall jumps but unlikely. Cannot hit grounded targets.
**EX – **High priority & fast start-up, respectable anti-air.
*Tornado Throw – **Throw immune, very high damage, can be hit on start-up.
*EX – **Hit immune, can be thrown on start-up, Will beat safe jumps
**Wheel Kick – **Unsafe on block at all but max range, easy punish with SRK, can use Stand LP (2 Frame) or Crouch MP (1 Frame) for a stronger punish. EX legs/SRK can punish it on reaction. Armour breaker & overhead,
**EX **- Projectile invincible & hits twice, punishes sonic boom at mid range.
**Super – **various invincibility changes depending on what button is used to activate, not worth discussing, rarely used, often combo’d in to.
**Ultra 1 – **Projectile invincible, punishes blocked Far Standing HP. Has no lower body invincibility, very good at punishing Seths sonic boom, many ways to combo in to it.
**Ultra 2 - **Throw, Armour during delay charge, punishes far HP on block, can also punish jump ins, can be held & cancelled. Punish depends on what the opponent does best to just avoid, Seth’s Ultra 1 will punish at all ranges, Ultra 2 will punish mid/close range.
Viable Option Selects* (The Options Selects that you’ll most want to use)*
**OS SPD – **Beats EX Roll, loses to EX Tornado Throw, Abel can also punish if he backdashes.
OS Throw – Beats EX Roll, loses to EX Tornado Throw.
Match-Up
Abel POV* (Points out what the opponent is looking to do in the match*)
Abel is dangerous at poking-range where his step kick can lead to many situations that are not in Seth’s favour, this is the range to avoid. He also has some very good air to airs, specifically his Jump HP. Abel relies on devious mix-ups & Seth cannot survive this for very long. SRK -> OS FADC after step-kick is an effective way of escaping pressure if you have the meter & can hopefully stop the mix-up before it starts. Abel’s cross-under rolls during resets & wake-up are as ambiguous as cross ups can get, EX SPD can catch him if you’re scared but is not a secure GTFO. All of Abel’s throws & CoD lead to his mix-up game. Will most likely use Ultra 1
Seth POV* (Points out what you, as Seth, want to do in the match)*
Abel suffers from poor wake-up options, as well as poor anti-air, neutral jump is a very useful tool; Abel can do very little against it. (However you must be weary of EX Air throw as it has invuln now) Most Abel’s try to push their way in with step kick, leaving them vulnerable to long range pokes cancelled to Tanden Engine, meaty Tanden is also an effective tool on Abels wake-up just out of throw range, beating all of his wake-up reversals. When Abel has ultra, the booms must be used sparingly & far HP should be avoided.
The one below is the same, but without all the notes i’ve added
abel
Spoiler
Stomp Sets
B&B1: Simple
**B&B2: **Yes + Delay
Corner: Simple
Tanden Bonus
Link to stand fierce after 2 light attacks.
Focus Fighting
**Seth Striking: **Always
Seth Evading: Miss
- Most Abel’s don’t use his Focus because of the very poor range
- Focus attack has its purpose in this match-up, however Abel has quite a few tools to stuff it quite often, in particularly his stand LK which has great range & often leads in to his Step kick if they are looking to pressure, most of his close standing moves are also multi-hitters, meaning you should have some distance when using it… With this in mind, Focus should be used cautiously, it’s also worth noting that Abel’s forward Dash is very fast, so you have to release quickly if you intend on punishing something like Step kick or a focus trade.
Bonus Safe-Jump set ups
Post Hyakaretsu (Mid screen) – Back wall jump.
Back Throw (Mid Screen) – Back Wall jump
Double Wall Jump Safe Jump. (Fast wake-up only)
Moves - Specials & Counters
*** - Moves with this at the end are viable wake-up options.**
**Marseilles Roll – **No invulnerability on start-up & can be thrown during, Tanden Engine is also classed as a throw & will catch him during. (EX Tanden engine does not work)
*EX – **Invulnerability on start-up.
Change of Direction (CoD/Rekka) – Punishable on block with SPD, though he can FADC out to make it safe.
*EX – **Armour up to first strike
**Sky Fall (Air Throw) – **low priority, rarely used out of combo, potential to catch wall jumps but unlikely. Cannot hit grounded targets.
**EX – **High priority & fast start-up, respectable anti-air.
*Tornado Throw – **Throw immune, very high damage, can be hit on start-up.
*EX – **Hit immune, can be thrown on start-up, potential to beat safe-jumps.
**Wheel Kick – **Unsafe on block at all but max range, easy punish with SRK, can use Stand LP (2 Frame) or Crouch MP (1 Frame) for a stronger punish. EX legs/SRK can punish it on reaction. Armour breaker & overhead,
**EX **- Projectile invincible & hits twice, punishes sonic boom at mid range.
**Super – **various invincibility changes depending on what button is used to activate, not worth discussing, rarely used, often combo’d in to.
**Ultra 1 – **Projectile invincible, punishes blocked Far Standing HP. Has no lower body invincibility, very good at punishing Seths sonic boom, many ways to combo in to it.
**Ultra 2 - **Throw, Armour during delay charge, punishes far HP on block, can also punish jump ins, can be held & cancelled. Punish depends on what the opponent does best to just avoid, Seth’s Ultra 1 will punish at all ranges, Ultra 2 will punish mid/close range.
Notable Normals
- Far Stand LK is a great & annoying poking tool
- Step Kick is what Abel’s base their entire game-plan around.
- Angled Jump HP is a great AA
- Crouch HP is a decent AA that can lead to combo opportunities. (certainly not great, but Abel is lacking good AA)
- Crouch MK is a decent mid-range AA.
Viable Option Selects
**OS SPD – **Beats EX Roll, loses to EX Tornado Throw, Abel can also punish if he backdashes.
OS Throw – Beats EX Roll, loses to EX Tornado Throw.
Match-Up
- Roll is not immune to throw
- Most Wheel Kicks can be punished on block with SRK
- Abel’s wake-up is poor, Neutral jump is a big problem for him
- Tanden just out of throw range beats most of Abel’s wake-up options
- Abel can beat Safe jumps with EX Tornado Throw
- Option Select Sweep & Option Select SRK are not viable OS’s VS Abel.
- Abel’s Step kick range is his strongest range, avoid.
- Abel has strong Air to Air.
- Abel’s CoD at close range, EX Wheel kick at mid-range & Ultra 1 at any range are all strong punishes for Sonic Boom
- Seth’s crouch HP can be reversal Ultra’d on block.
Abel POV
Abel is dangerous at poking-range where his step kick can lead to many situations that are not in Seth’s favour, this is the range to avoid. He also has some very good air to airs, specifically his Jump HP. Abel relies on devious mix-ups & Seth cannot survive this for very long. SRK -> OS FADC after step-kick is an effective way of escaping pressure if you have the meter & can hopefully stop the mix-up before it starts. Abel’s cross-under rolls during resets & wake-up are as ambiguous as cross ups can get, EX SPD can catch him if you’re scared but is not a secure GTFO attack will lose to Tornado Throw. All of Abel’s throws & CoD lead to his mix-up game. Will most likely use Ultra 1 for this match-up.
Seth POV
Abel suffers from poor wake-up options, as well as poor anti-air, neutral jump is a very useful tool; Abel can do very little against it. (However you must be weary of EX Air throw as it has invuln now) Most Abel’s try to push their way in with step kick, leaving them open to long range pokes cancelled to Tanden Engine, Tanden is also an effective toll on Abel’s wake-up just out of throw range, beating all of his wake-up reversals. When Abel has ultra, the booms must be used sparingly & far HP should be avoided.
this looks great, and provides a lot of very useful information
Shouldn’t throw beat EX Tornado Throw?
Not an OS one, Seths EX Throw is not throw immune &, Abels EX throw is hit immune & avoids the jump HK & hits Seth during landing.
Seth does have one long range safe jump against some large hitbox character, but it sucks against Abel. Not to mention on hit it has no decent follow up options.
SPD -> Forward Dash -> Neutral Jump HK (hit’s at tip, really looks like it won’t hit) -> OS Ultra 1/MP Tanden/EX Hyakaretsu (Most useful OS’s)
Problem is EX Roll beats every one of those options, even LP Tanden doesn’t trigger quick enough, these would all beat EX TT, but no Abel in there right mind would think EX TT would be a viable reversal in this situation. It’s funny though, i could have sworn Seths U1 catches Abel mid roll, but apparently not.
Sorry I’m a bit confused because you wrote:
So when you said “OS Throw” did you mean SPD because that’s a bit redundant? If you meant an ordinary throw why does that not beat EX Tornado Throw?
Edit: Oh does the same thing apply to a regular throw (i.e. Abel’s Tornado Throw catches Seth before he can execute the regular (not SPD) throw?
Yup… Abels EX Tornado throw is 5 frames startup, it takes Seth 3 frames just to land from the jump, (that’s if your timing is perfect) at this stage he is gonna throw you in 2 frames.
I am fairly certain there are more viable option selects than those two against Abel (though most of those also apply to others…maybe there should be a section where certain “general” OS don’t work)
Well, i’m unsere whether to list things like OS Sweep as it’s pretty common. & i don’t recall any other OS’s being useful VS Abel, maybe LP SRK?
Does OS Backdash avoidTornado Throw? I’ll have to test that
Grr, i just did a post but this damn forum didn’t save it for some reason.
I’ll add a section that highlight key points in the fight, this will include anything that might go against Seths standard gameplan, such as occasions when OS Sweep/SRK is not a viable option or when the other character has tools to punish standard tactics (such as punishes for far HP or the like)
No it Won’t . He is grabbing recovery frames from your jump in.
shoryu x fadc > hop kicks
whats the trick w/ getting this to land on certain characters? neutral jump whiffs and directional jump turns his back to them. have the most trouble against cody and honda and a few others. tips plz.