Help!Combo got counter when blocked

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1

I am a gen player.
I like the combo of jumping in cross-up with MK(crane)+c.LK (mantis) + c.LP+st.HP+gekiro.

Then recently, I always got countered by shoryuken/ upper cut during the link between c.LK and c.LP. And It only happens if c.LK is blocked.

I used to think that it is not possible to counter a combo(in street fighter series or any other games, such king of fighters), no matter if it is blocked or hit.

I am sure it is not due to the delay/bad timing input of c.LP.

Do you have this problem?

2

there 's a gap between cr lp and cr lk ,(not a true block string) use st.lp when you get mashed or just stop and see them fly :slight_smile:

3

Thanks. I will try to use st.lp and see how works.

It took me a while to practice this combo to perfection and I am gutted to know that this combo has this critical flaw.

4

I came across to the below link and hope you may explain to me a bit more about frame rate

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2009/apr/17/gens-frame-data-street-fighter-4/eventhubs.com/guides/2009/apr/17/gens-frame-data-street-fighter-4/

CR.lp and CR.lk both have the same start up frame rate, which is four frame.
Why don’t I get counter when I hit CR.lk + CR.lk?

5

bro, seems you just picked up the game. Explaining frame data to you would be a colossal waste of energy. so go to this page and then study like you are preparing for an exam, then all things will become clear to you.

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE#Characters

read up the basic elements, universal abilities and the rest

6

Thanks for the link, which is useful.
However, I still can’t find the answer for my question, please help.

Let’s have some number here.

Consider all below cases my move is being blocked. My purpose for this is to find a safe combo. Plus sign means my frame advantage and minus sign means frame disadvantage.

Case 1: Cr.lk > Cr.lp.
1F (Cr.lk Frame Adv. Block) – 4F (Cr.lp Startup) = -3F
I can see why I got punished by Ryu’s shoryuken as shoryuken has only 3F of start up.

Case 2: Cr.lk > St.lp (thanks for Koufdell suggestion)
1F (Cr.lk Frame Adv. Block) – 3F (St.lp Startup) = -2F
I can see that this combo has only 2F and it is 1F less than shoryuken startup. And that is why it is better than case 1.

Case 3. Cr.lk > Cr.lk
I am sure most Gen player use Cr.lk x 3or4 hits when in a situation you want to distance your opponent safely and quick.

1F (Cr.lk Frame Adv. Block) - 4F (Cr.lk Startup) = -3F
This gives the same frame rate as case 1, -3F disadvantage. But I never got countered in case 3.

Is there something wrong in my calculation?

7

there are three types of combos in the game, LINKS, CHAINS and CANCELS
now the above calculation works for links ONLY. now with chains i allows you to cancel the recovery of the first attack with the second one, and gen standing and crouching light attacks in mantis stance are chain cancellable normals.

so lets say gen standing light punch which is 3-2-6 (if I remember correctly) and +3 on block now if you chain into say crLK it will cancel the 6 frames of recovery into 4 frames startup which is +5 and thus is a blockstring and CANNOT be punished

So basically your crLK crLK is a chain and that is why you dont get countered, if you are looking for a counter-hit your best bet is crLK~stMP (also 4 frame start up)

8

thanks for your reply. So It is a cancel combo, not link combo in case 3 and that is why I don’t received countered hit

Sorry for too many question.
As most of upper cut moves have few frames invincible in the start up stage, say Ryu’s MP shoryuken has 4F of invincible. Does it mean shoryuken can ALWAYS counter “LINK” combo, even if the frame gap of link is shorter than shoryuken start up frame due to the “invincible property”?

9

If your links leaves your opponent at 0 frames or less then he has to block it for example gen st.MP is +5 on block, so if you link stMP crLK then your opponent will be stuck in blockstun if he blocks it, if you do stMP stMK link which is +5 stMP and it takes 5 frames for stMk to hit which is 5-5=0 your opponent still be stuck in block stun, but if you try stMP crHP which is +5 -7 then you have a 2 frame gap when your opponent is no longer in blockstun and even though its a 2 frame gap which results in a counter-hit if he pushes any normal but if he does a light dp which has 3 frame invincibility you will both trade hits, but if he does mp shoryuken which has 4 frames he will beat you clean