All I know is a good chunk of my paycheck goes into FICA/SS every 2 weeks, and I cry when I think I’m never getting it back.
I mean, they take more than I tithe to my church! That’s insane!
What seems to be escaping everyone is this is the public OPTION. You don’t have to get this if you don’t want to. They’re also trying to find ways to pay for it without taxing the middle class (taxing the luxury plans of CEOs for example, but the conservatives scream bloody murder EACH and EVERY time they try to do anything like that. It’s like they want to leave the democrats no choice so they can come back in 2010 and go “See they taxed you!” Yeah because government initiatives have to be paid for and you let the rich people get a free pass in order to win political points. You tool.)
Now before you say “It’s not really an option because it’ll drive the private insurance company out of business!” I say GOOD. If they can’t compete with the system you think is so crappy then they deserve to go out of business.
You can’t have it both ways. If it’s really that bad then there’s no reason for the majority to leave their private health care plan. If it’s really so good that it’ll drive private insurance out of business then why the fuck are we protecting the private insurance companies in the first place?
It’s just dishonest what most conservatives are doing. They are providing a false dichotomy and doing what they do best: fear mongering.
I don’t know about you guys, but I don’t want my health to be determined by the profits of an insurance company. I’d rather take my chances with the government that has elected officials that I can hold accountable if they fuck me over. But hey even if the government plan is COMPLETE trash, I still have the OPTION to go private.
Here’s the real tragedy: We could be having a real debate and actually improve the bill. But instead conservatives are content to whip up lies about euthanasia, Single Payer, and Obama being Hitler. This is what our discourse has degraded to even in one of the most important issues we have to face as a nation.
Even if the conservative members in this forum do have good reasons for opposing the bill, we’ll never get to hear them as a nation. We’ll be too busy trying to shovel out the bullshit that is clogging up the public arena.
The whole debate makes my head hurt.
Yeah, I don’t need all the rambling about euthanasia, Obama being the anti-Christ, etc. Just keep it simple, like this.
“An extremely complex graph of the Free Market Health Care solution”. :lol:
That is all well and good except that the little arrow in between doesn’t explain how the fuck us in the middle class are supposed to afford making that connection. After my mortgage (which is relatively small because I bought when the market was at rock bottom), my car, my utilities and food, how am I supposed to ensure I don’t die because I have a seizure while driving? Oh yes, let’s just forgoe one of those. Maybe I won’t pay my water this month so Kaiser can gouge me some more…
I do NOT live beyond my means at all, I have an economy car, my house cost less than 250k, and I don’t uselessly spend my money on anything. Oh, and I have a decent job in the IT field, yet somehow, Kaiser is all I can afford and I can barely afford that. If I had a kid, I’d be fucked. How is the middle class supposed to feel? Oh well, better make some more then if you want coverage…
Me and my wife both have decent jobs, we bring home a good amount between us and beyond our bills, we don’t really buy anything and we can barely make ends meet. We are both educated people who have worked hard to ensure we never live beyond our means. We drive economy cars with good gas milleage, we live in an older house - we are basically the model of how people should live within their means and we can barely afford health coverage. Lucky for her, she works for Costco, and she gets good coverage that isn’t Kaiser, but I don’t. I get gouged each time I need to get my required blood work. I have no choice, how is it that the current system works?
Between the Rx companies and the insurance providers, middle class America is held captive by the need to health care. We have no choice, because without coverage, we’re doubly fucked. So it’s pay out a shit ton to private health care providers who provide you with mediocre service or pray you never get sick. They know you need them, so they can basically do whatever they want. You have no choice…I just think we need to do something quick, because health care has a fucking stranglehold on middle class America, the one group who will make or break our economy…
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I’m not suggesting that Obama’s plan for healthcare reform is the correct one (the amount of spending involved scares the shit out of me, honestly), but in the face of the millions of people who are barely making ends meet and the millions more who are not making ends meet solely because of healthcare costs, something needs to change.
i don’t even feel like getting into this argument right now, but I do have to say something about Tiberious.
You hopefully you don’t actually believe the stuff that you just posted is true and you know that pretty much all of it already happens right now.
There already is someone deciding what type of care you can get and when you can get it and the people currently doing it unlike the government don’t care who you vote for.
Telling someone that they should have a living will so that their wishes are followed in case they end up in that situation is not asking old people to choose how they will die. And it is also already being done by doctors now. Not to mention the huge national debate over this very issue 5 years ago that could have all been avoided if the subject of that debate had put what she wanted in writing.
The other part about cancer hospitals has nothing to do with what you posted after it so i’m not touching that.
This country is ass backwards, if the people who are complaining about this had it for 6 months they would be saying the only way you could take it away is if you pry it from their cold dead hands.
I’ve worked in insurance I know people who are getting screwed over royally by the current system and still would rather keep it over this plan because someone they put their trust in told them Obama is going to kill their grandmother.
I thought the White House had it’s share white collared criminals.
I went to the Rx to get my grandmother some meds that would only last 5 days and the price without insurance was $350. I laughed at the pharmacists’ price while this expression of “I know it’s ridiculous” coated their faces. That’s rent for an entire month for some people.
I don’t want to sound condescending in this post, but once again, you’ve gotta get out and meet more people. I’ve got family dotted across Europe and Canada, and there are more horror stories than good things. In Scotland, I have a relative whose best friend was denied treatment for a cancer relapse, which could have been solved. I know somebody in Canada who got hurt, and couldn’t get treated for days because they weren’t in their home province. And there are non-white people being denied prenatal care in France, because of a program where they pay white families to have more kids.
Even if you get stiffed on the bill in America, you are going to get treated. In public health care programs, you really, truly do get a price tag put on your life.
Truly, both parties are pushing for reform. But they are all being put on the back burner for Obama’s plan, which is universally acknowledged by the financial sector as a “really fucking stupid idea” to use their words (not really).
And labeling somebody as “overpaid” when you don’t even know how they are doing is stupid as all hell.
This dude needs to stop rushing issues,you gotta think something like this out.It’s like he’s trying to change everything overnight.:sad:
Only to be told that he’s too lax on healthcare and is taking too long to fix the problem. It’s a double edged sword.
Frankly, I don’t pity Obama in the least, he knew what he was getting to, trying to solve a problem that can’t be solved even in 2 terms, and the mounting deficit will probably require generations to fix.
Bullshit. Have you seen how much money in “donations” republicans and blue-dog democrats receive from healthcare lobbyists? Their goal right now is to:
A. Kill healthcare reform like they have EVERY time in the past, in order to keep pocketing “donations” from the healthcare industry.
and
B. Try to make Obama fail on every single thing he tries to do in order to gain a political advantage for 2010/2012.
he’s trying to change it overnight bcuz otherwise it won’t get done. government doesn’t slowly change. things are and then legislation passes and then they aren’t. people need to stop acting like bitches, the ugy got elected saying “i’mma bring change!” and now people are crying like pussies bcuz they don’t want to deal with change. if obreezy and the boys didn’t try and get this shit done now then it most likely wouldn’t get done just like it didn’t get done in the last 20+ years.
1 of every 700 dollars spent on healthcare in USA goes directly to the CEO of United Health Group. So he got 50cents of the money the previous poster paid for his grandmas meds. If that isn’t OVERPAID??
Source: [media=youtube]fNykr8dLLSM[/media]
Don’t believe what this guy I’m quoting. I am a European. I live with Europeans. I have never ever heard about a “denied treatment” case. Period. Does it still happen? Sure! About once per 10 000 times maybe… How often do you guys get denied treatment? Once every 50 times?
The numbers are uncomparable.
So one person is getting 0.014% of all the money being spent on health care?
The horror.
(1/700)*100%= 0.014%… Ok good job Albert
So… you’re perfectly ok with a single person getting .14% of 2.3 Trillion dollars every year while we have tens millions of Americans uninsured?
It’s 0.14%, people! Not 0.014%!
There are probably way more horror stories under the American Healthcare system.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/11/opinion/11krugman.html
Read that because he brings up a good point. Emergency rooms are no substitute for regular care. If you only go when it’s an emergency then it might be too late at that point because you put it off for too long. Some of the most cost effective and successful treatments are preventative. People won’t go if they have to pay out of their ass each time they see a doctor, and the current system encourages uninsured people to do exactly that. They will put off care until it’s too late, they’ll probably die, AND on top of that they’ll financially ruin their families.
The current system is horrendous. It’s been said before, but it bears repeating. We are ranked 37th in the world when it comes to health care. (While spending more than just about anyone)
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
And it’s already been more or less proven that the current system is unsustainable. We have to do something. We really have no choice at this point. It would be nice, however, if just for once we could put aside the politics and actually have a rational debate on the best way to go about fixing health care. So many lives are at stake here. Not lives overseas or hundreds of thousands of miles away. Right next door. This is our neighbors, our friends, our families. This is us if and when we should lose our jobs.
Health care is serious business.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090716/ap_on_go_ot/us_health_care_overhaul_ama
So by “every fucking member of the American Medical Association” you of course mean, “the AMA endorsed the bill.”
Really, do you guys even Google stuff before you type it, or do you just make something up because it sounds good? Evidence indicates the latter.
So here’s something you can use on your next BS tirade, "Even LIBERAL Hillary Clinton said, “Obamacare will fucking kill old people and force people to get abortions and that shit isn’t even right!!! Also, the New York Knicks fucking kick that shit and all you gangstas out there know that I come correct, bitches.”
If that doesn’t win an argument about health care reform, I don’t know what will.
Between Acllaim and Angryliberal, I basically consider Tiberious destroyed.
Spudly, I’d like to see documentation or some kind of record of France’s bonuses to white families having children, if such documentation exists.