honda Juri is easily a 7-3 for Juri. That MU took a 180.
You have that the opposite way around
IMO, Decapre is at least 6:4 or maybe even 7:3 in that matchup. She can shut down anything he does at far standing mk range, pokes, clap, even EX Monster Lariat. The same is most probably true for Cammy as well since she has the same kick with even better hitboxes.
Also, I think Decapre vs. 'Gief is in her favor as well. Neutral jump HP is too good in this match up since it beats out lariat when timed right and can convert into good damage on hit (290+ with a simple 3 hit combo to HP stinger, goes up to about 360+ if she has meter to FADC into air throw).
I don’t think Decapre beats Hugo at all. You have to play footsies from a range where he can cr.mk you for standing up. If a hugo understands his pokes and how to whiff punish that matchup is hard because you don’t outrange him.
Gief on the other hand you do outrange.
Really? Cammy has ways to keep Gief honest through the usage of EX CS since the timing to make it trade with Lariat is different than j.HK, and trying to beat it is pretty much a mess, so Gief most of the time stays blocking. Cammy also has cr.MK xx Spiral Arrow to keep Zangief from focus fishing vs her st.HK, whereas Decapre has cr.MK xx Hands, which need to be done in max range so reacting to the focus, walking forward to get into range for max range cr.MK xx LP Hands so you’re not punishable can be more easily reacted to than the mess that happens with cr.MK xx Spiral Arrow, also she can throw spiral arrow on reaction to wreck the focus, which Decapre cannot do, so the footsie game turns into st.HK and cr.MK vs cr/st.LK and Focus Attack, which is pretty even, but Gief gets more payoff for his tricks. Decapre’s offense on Gief is pretty bad since Lariat wrecks everything that could be remotely ambigous or tricky while Gief just keeps safe jumping her ass into his usual mixups. Then you get into the territory of Decapre not having a reliable anti-air like Cannon Spike unless she has charge, which she can’t mantain if she’s pressing st.HK and walking into cr.MK range, and you get a matchup sort of like Bison where you can be AA’d by certain normals in certain ranges but the payoff is definetly in Gief’s favor whereas the Decapre player will have to stay on his toes to try and AA j.HP, early j.MK and knees reliably, whereas all Gief has to do is Lariat.
I really think it’s 7-3 Gief.
Oni vs Gief changed in that Oni’s forward + HP is now punishable by LP GH on block, that button was the single death button in the matchup so making it punishable changed the dynamic of the matchup a lot. Taking off 50 health from Oni helped too.
Sim v. Hakan 8-2.
Sim v. Abel 8-2.
Sim v. Makoto 8-2.
I thought Decapre did great against Hugo but now that I’m facing ones that use his cr mk I’m changing my mind. You can’t sleep on that button and it leads to bad things.
Interesting. The ones I’ve faced offline barely ever use cr.mk.
interesting point here about cr.mk xx hands to beat focus is you can buffer the hands 4 inputs, then just tap another punch if you see the focus, so it’s really not that big of a deal to use it as a focus breaker. Raw if you’re charged you can do walk into dp, or something like ex strike(land behind) or react to him canceling into a dash with pound/fake pound.
Not having an invincible option if your poke is jumped over is an issue(and a matchup where the charge time nerf HURTS), but this is why learning how to use cr.mk and cr.hp is so important.
I don’t think it’s 7-3, but I would give Gief the advantage, and it’s hard for Decapre to play it correctly.
Neutral jump HP beats out lariat.
Unfortunately delayed Lariat seems to beat all nj. attacks.
Hugo’s crMK is pretty damn good as a normal goes. It’s got crazy range (It’s farther reaching than Cody’s far HK, but only barely) and it’s only -7F on block so it’s pretty near impossible to punish outside of a couple of moves. Plus it’s got a really big hitbox.
yeah decapre can u2 it on block, but that is charge dependent, but yeah the hitbox in it is nuts.
Described damn near everything in SF4. Isn’t her U2 4F startup iirc? It’s pretty bonkers.
I’ve never heard any pro players say a match up is 8-2 and yet everyone’s throwing 8-2 left and right here. It’s rare to see 7-3 on a pro match up tier list too. The only 7-3 that I can think of right now that is agreed upon is Blanka-T. Hawk. There’s a lot of exaggeration in this thread.
I thought the **Guile - Bison **match up changed now.
Cant Bison use EX Scissors through Guiles zoning.
It’s because everybody is oddly conservative when it comes to matchups in SF4 for some reason.
If you’ve ever actually tried to play most of these matchups at a mid to high level then you would see we aren’t really exaggerating.
That and everyone shits all over any top player who DOES say something is worse than 6-4 or 6.5-3.5, thus causing top players to be conservative with numbers or have everyone tell them off.
Neutral jump Headbutt beats neutral jump HP, and if you’re that close there’s no reason not to use it.
Also, having a neutral jump attack that beats Lariat isn’t exactly a big dealbreaker that makes Gief terrified. Bison has it, Rose has it (nj.MP), a lot of characters have it, it’s nice to have it on offense but it doesn’t exactly terrify Gief since you can just block it if you’re in the corner and you’ll still be one SPD away from completely turning the situation around or just backdash if you’re in midscreen and get away from it.
Anti-Air version is 4F startup, ground version is 7F