I might be building a custom arcade stick soon. Just want to get something cleared up about sticks before I buy anything.
I’m an American, so I have the most experience with Happ sticks in the shape of a bat. I’ve played machines that have the gumball stick, but couldn’t control it as well. I much prefer the kind of bat that Mortal Kombat machines have. So I’m going with the bat for sure.
I know Happ sticks are probably what I’ve been using all these years, but I see that Lizard Lick sells Sanwa sticks that are bat-shaped. I’m going to be buying Sanwa buttons, but now I’m not sure whether I should get a Sanwa stick or a Happ stick. Are Sanwas technically superior? Are they easier to use, more durable? Is there any good reason I should pick one over the other?
It’s my first time building, and I really want to use this stick for games, so I want to make the right decisions. I’ll be sure to post pics here the day I finish.
It’s not so much the top of the stick that makes Sanwa different then Happ.
The true heart of the matter is that, Sanwa and Seimitsu (Japanese sticks) compared to Happ (American) use a different gate.
Mostly all Happ and iL sticks generally use a circular / octagonal gate.
and Sanwa has a Square-Gate as default.
Also the buttons for Happ to Sanwa are also very different.
Happ buttons require more tension to activate due to a longer spring, which also means it takes slightly longer for the button to depress to it’s initial position.
Seimitsu is in between Sanwa in that it activates and deactivates quickly, but requires less tension then Happ, but more tension then Sanwa to trigger.
Sanwa buttons require very little pressure and the inputs register nearly an instant and depress just as fast. You can literally blow on Sanwa buttons with your breath and they can register in game as being pressed, they are very very sensitive.
Happ buttons tend to be somewhat sturdier, but not so much in that they have any significant advantage over Sanwa, as Sanwa buttons can also take some serious punishment before needing to be replaced. (Both have an average life of roughly 2,000,000 button presses, which can equate to 1 to 2 years of constant usage.
There’s no gate on American sticks, the actuator is all you have at base of the stick ( at least on the Microswitch based sticks, optical sticks work in a different manner)
If you plan on taking a trip to Japan, playing in a Japanese style arcade, or playing FGs in Asia then the Sanwa style stick is for you.
I own 2 HRAP sticks, an X Arcade (BAD), and a custom Happ stick. It really depends on the games I am playing though which I prefer.
Generally imho it is easier to do motion specials (fireballs, uppercuts etc) on a Sanwa style because the spring is so light, you move a lot faster with it. However, I play a lot of charge type characters and the heavy spring on Happ sticks gives you a little more “snap” on your release, so that will be a bit faster for you.
The standards for games will also matter too: In the US the standard for Marvel is Happ sticks, standard 3s is ball type, for Super Turbo it’s either one mostly… depends on your arcade.
I don’t plan on going to Japan; I’m not crazy about Japanese culture, I just like their arcade games. I want a good stick to play online with mostly, because it’s hard doing precise input with my ps2 pad. I don’t like the sensitivity of Happ buttons so the Sanwa buttons are a must for me. The arcade near me with a SF3TS machine has Happ sticks.
So basically, the Sanwa sticks have a much lighter spring which makes the stick easier to move around? And they have square gates. I think I’d prefer a more sturdy stick with an octagonal gate and the bat stick… so I should go Happ then?
Also, if anyone could point me towards a good tutorial of what I’ll need to buy that would be awesome. I know the basics; I have a 3rd-party ps1 pad that I’ll gut and solder the buttons to. But I’m not sure what I need besides the buttons, stick, wood casing and ps1 PCB.
The happ doesn’t have an octagonal gate. Also if you wanna go with a bat style stick get an iL or Fanta stick. Many say that the happ sticks became crappy. still the sanwa sticks lasts at least 3 years if only you are playing it. you can also do a spring mod if you want a harder spring in a sanwa stick. just use the search function.
You’re better off with the happ sticks, you’ll have problems doing motions on sanwa sticks with Round gates(JLW-UM-8 aren’t octagonal but really round).They work with some games but with others they don’t.
it has something to do with the actuator, sanwa sticks use a round one and happ sticks use a square one
what this means is that you’ll be doing motions more easily on the happ sticks because of the square actuator. You won’t miss the corners like you do with sanwa sticks
you do better with the square gates but it feels weird. Instead of doing half circles you feel like you’re doing half squares. They feel very stiff specially if you play motion heavy games like KOF.
edit:also if you go happ the housing of the stick will have to be bigger, mostly because of the happ stick being huge
The ‘gate’ on Happ/iL/Wico style sticks is at the top of the housing, the flat part that is mounted against whatever you have it mounted on.
To the OP: I recently tried dicking around with an EX2 to see if I could make a Japanese stick work in a way I want it to, and it just can’t happen in my opinion. Mostly because you can do everything in your power but you will never get the stick to keep from ‘twisting’ easily, which ruins the feel of the stick for me. Here is what I did and what ultimately wasn’t enough to turn me onto Japanese sticks:
Made a circular gate with a ring from a CD-R spindle, because the GT-0 is way too goddamn big and does not work correctly. The restrictor is basically the same size as the default square restrictor (the edges of the circle line up with the edges of the square), so I had to sand down the edges of the original Hori one so that it was a 100% smooth circle.
Opened up the microswitches and put some paper in between the plunger and the arm inside the switch. Then I put 1 layer of electrical tape around the actuator. Both of these work together to make sure that you can hit diagonals properly with the circular restrictor. The issue is that Japanese sticks are simply not made to work with circular restrictors without modification to the parts. If you don’t do this, you won’t be able to hit diagonals. That’s why the GT-0 is over-sized.
Put a tighter spring in place of the original. It was a spring from a Wico ball top stick.
Put on a bat top
Put thin pieces of paper in between all of the non-moving parts that slide onto the shaft so they do not move at all. This made the stick quite a bit harder to ‘twist’ because now it is basically all one piece, but this along with the tighter spring still wasn’t enough.
In conclusion, you should get a Happ/iL Euro stick. Maybe Fanta, but I’ve never used one so I couldn’t say anything about it.
Dandy J: Sounds like you went through exactly what I’m trying to avoid. Sorry!
I just ordered my Happ stick and Sanwa buttons from LizardLick. I’ll head to the hardware store tomorrow and get everything else I need. Hopefully it’s not too difficult, I’ll show you guys the results. Thanks for the help deciding on the stick.
I think many make this more complicated then it is. Japanese joysticks are the best. The Sanwa JLF and Seimitsu LS-32 are the 2 best joysticks.
The Industrias Lorenzo competition joystick is the original Happ competition which was the best stick used in the US. Now Happ uses a more cheep inferior type and still call it the Happ competition.
You sound to me like you would do best on a Seimitsu LS-32 with a bat top. The Sanwa bat tops fit on Seimitsu joysticks.
They suck big ol donkey dicks if you like the Happ feel. They are simply built differently and Japanese sticks will never ever have a feel even close to Happ/Wico/iL unless they actually build them that way with the spring as a part of the housing instead of part of the shaft assembly. I use a Wico 3.5" balltop in an older p360 housing and it’s the best stick I’ve ever used. Try to not be a Nippon Nuthugger and think your yourself.
I have used, tested and worked with every joystick around. After working with Arcade equipment and making custom controllers for a long time I learned a lot about the different quality of Arcade parts. My decisions are based on studying and testing not from the place it originated.
After teaching many to play fighters those who are not biased always go for the Japanese joystick. From my experience not only are Japanese parts more accurate for control but the quality of the parts is far more superior.
I am not talking about personal preference some have horrible preferences. I am talking about accuracy and quality. It is best to learn and better your skill with the best.
Also the LS-32 out of all the Japanese joysticks I have used has a feel that can be close to a Competition. The big difference is the LS-32 is far more accurate for movements in fighters and shooters.
I personally have had nothing but problems with Perfect 360 joysticks. Nothing beats the old school feel and reliability of good microswitches.
I respect your personal preference but I am just commenting on my knowledge of the parts.
Okay well I’ve used Sanwa and Seimitsu sticks and I think the old p360s or the competition design with a short Wico balltop is better than any of them because of the way the housing is built. They are more sensitive, have a shorter throw, and are super smooth. I agree that Sanwa manufactures stuff better and that stock Happ is not so great. Fact is that no Sanwa has yet to match the feel because of the way they construct them.
I don’t really care if Happ sticks are best or not; it’s what I’ve used all my life and I can play just fine on them. If I ever feel that the stick is holding me back, I’ll make another one or try to replace it. I’m not going to blindly buy a stick I’ve never used before because it’s from a certain country or everyone claims it to be better (it sounds a lot more like Japan love to me). I’ve always felt Happ buttons weren’t sensitive enough though, so I’m buying Sanwa buttons for that reason.
Parts should come within 2 days. I hear LizardLick ships quickly, and North Carolina isn’t too far from me. Thanks again for the advice, I’ll let you know if I’m happy with Happ or not.
You are taking core parts of different manufacturers older joysticks and switching them around. I am going off of the manufacturers standard when coming to my conclusions.
Personally I have not tried this kind of combination and don?t know if you changed anything else with the joystick. I have a idea of how this hybrid joystick you have come up with would feel but I don?t know how accurate your conclusions of its functions are.
Going off what I do know about the parts involved I would respectfully disagree.
Well it’s really easy, you just take a happ comp and a 3.5" Wico NOS balltop and put em together. Make sure you have the light spring and something about 1/8" to put between the pivot part and the thicker part of the stick.
alien3456 good choices on the order. Personally I prefer Sanwa/Seimitsu buttons, mostly because the plungers are a lot bigger than Happs.
Sounds like there is no real answer to the question. It is a matter of preference and so on. I am going with what will fit in the stick I have and moving on from there.
