Lol, catching Guile out of a Flash Explosion that was supposed to chip me to death with LK Super and then going on to win that round and then match was so gratifying. Also weird since I could swear that I’ve been punched out of LK Super even when I let it go.
His Super is so confusing, though my finally making a note of what the different versions do is good…
Fixed, because it was a bit grammatically confusing ^^
does anybody else find that being oiled up screws with their sense of timing and spacing for using normal attacks? a lot of times I don’t bother oiling up at all now and use the extra time to pressure people into doing something
nononononoo… no. Get oiled, figure out “oil range” of your normals, and then pressure. When I’m unoiled, I only pressure people til I get a knock down, then it’s Slick City. DNC is heroic.
It won’t catch jumps either because prejump is immune to throws. Prejump is 4 frames (or more), and the grab is only active for 4 frames. It can’t be meaty (active before they’re up) at all if you want to catch jumps.
I know this has been done before but are we sure a lk oil is 100% safe after a slide/slam?
I sometimes get hit after and figure its just me. But lately vs Akuma I eat reversal shoryukens everytime.
1 or 2 out of 3 tries I would assume is just me messing up, but Akuma keep whacking me. Offline as well as online. Online I can accept it a lil but offline now same thing. Ryu/Kens seems to be a mixed bag.
Yes, it is certainly safe. I’ve even been able to LK Oil and then backdash away from Hawk’s SPD. In fact, one of my favorite things to do against people who don’t know that is slide + press, LK Oil, and block their SRK, then do c.MK XX slide + press, LK Oil, and immediate EX SPD. That makes them fear every subsequent knockdown.
Nod, I do this as well on Ryu and Kens. And Akumas that dont SRK on reversal… I dunno wth is going on with this.
Maybe you can wavedash with it similar to how its used in Mvc2.:wonder:
lol i wonder if you can cancel forward dash into backdash
VS Honda neutral jump Fierce:
S.MP (and to lesser degree c.RH) can hit this pretty easily if you’re close. Honda has to hit with the tip of his hands if he wants to even trade.
F+MP on the other hand, owns it for free I think. I don’t think it’s possible for him to hit the attacking part of F+MP. You can even do it late, go under the punch, hit him as he’s landing, and cancel into slide for a tripguard combo.
Certain jump attacks like this one won’t animate all the way to the ground, and just can’t attack that low… perhaps F+MP is a great anti-air against these type of jump-attacks? Worth trying out against other characters at least.
This brings me to another gimmick… anti-air normal canceled into MP slide. If you do F+MP (or even far c.LP) as AA and then cancel into MP slide, it seems to be a perfect setup for meaty slide. They can’t be too high in the air, and you can’t be too close or you’ll slide underneath, but otherwise it seems to work. Like all meaty slide setups, it’s ridiculously telegraphed (they can just react DP/etc to the slide), but the frame advantage you get is pretty sweet.
I would love to be able to do RAW safe slides, hit with just the end of it, but damnit, it’s sooo hard to eyeball. They often just move a little while I’m sliding and screw it up.
Full screen HP slide is a good setup for ultra I or EX rocket. Works really well to end match when they have low life as most decent players are hesitant to reversal without a hit confirm when their life is low and EX rocket beats normals.
Edit: this is when they block
So we all know that Hakan’s defense goes up when he’s oiled, but I don’t think I’ve seen anyone look into exactly how much. Dunno if anyone has posted this, but when oiled, the damage modifier comes into play for both attack AND chip situations. And it seems really weird.
–Attack damage modifier
-----Single attack modifier: 90%
-----Three hit combo modifier: 72%
-----Four hit combo modifier: 64%
–Chip damage modifier
-----Hakan slide: 94%
-----Hakan ex slide: 90%
-----Ryu fireball: 93%
-----Ryu ex fireball: 91%
-----Ryu ex dragon punch: 90% on first hit, 93% on second hit
-----…etc
Chip seems really weird and I’ll have to look into it more to find anything consistent (maybe the modifier is higher or lower based on how much damage is done), but the main point is that the modifier comes into place in both attack and chip.
Lately I’ve begun to get more comfortable with doing an oil even when I know I’ll get hit (people are calling this “blood for oil” heh). One situation where this good is where your opponent throws a fireball from far away. Against some characters you can do ex oil through the fb and not worry about getting punished, but in general an alert opponent can punish your ex oil. So how to get any benefit out of that situation? Blood for oil. To maximize the oil you trade for that blood, it’s useful to know how much time you get from your various oils, ie, if you know your oil will be interrupted, which strength of oil should you pick?
From the first post in this thread, we can see this:
-----Lk oil startup: 20 frames (everyone knows that 1 frame = 1/60 of a second, right? ok)
----------Minimum: 3 sec
----------Midway (36f): 4 sec
----------Just before full (46f): 5 sec
----------Full (52f): 6 sec
-----Mk oil startup: 20f
----------Minimum: 4 sec
----------Midway (44f): 5 sec
----------Just before full (60f): 7 sec
----------Full (72f): 9 sec
-----Rh oil startup: 20f
----------Minimum: 5 sec
----------Midway (47f): 8 sec
----------Just before full (63f): 10 sec
----------Full (86f): 12 sec
-----Ex oil startup: 20f
----------Minimum: 6 sec
----------Midway (47f): 9 sec
----------Just before full (70f): 12 sec
----------Full (86): 15 sec
So we can see that if you think you’ll only get the minimum oil, hk oil is best (and oh by the way, it builds the most meter too!). And if there’s not enough time to finish any of your oils before the projectile reaches you, let’s say 50 frames, you can see that you’re still better off doing hk oil; with lk oil you get 5 seconds, but with hk you get 8 seconds!
In fact, say you have a full second, ie 60 frames, to oil up in before the projectile reaches you. If you do lk oil, you’ll recover in time to block and have oil for 6 seconds. If you do hk oil, you’ll get hit, but you’ll have 9 seconds of oil time, a 50% increase. That’s pretty significant!
I think there are some situations where blood for oil makes a lot of sense. If you’re up against a projectile character who can keep you out well, you really need oil to scare them. Trading blood for oil could be really useful here because it can actually be your safest way to oil. If they can punish your ex oil through their projectile, then ex oil is basically still a blood for oil trade where you take MORE damage and lose MORE oil time (since the time when you’re getting comboed, are knocked down, and wake up is lost oiled time).
Keep in mind also that when oiled, you take 90% of a single move damage you’d otherwise take, so that sonic boom will deal 45 damage instead of 50.
this has been most insightful
Hey, last time I mentionned this, I got told I should not accept to trade oil 
Very nice explainations and “blood oil” is a cool name. I believe it is a very situational move, but there are situations where it can prove be usefull.
To add to the discussion, you already benefit from the oil damage reduction when being hit out of oil, so this is how much blood you trade for oil:
[in brackets is normal damage of the projectile]
Of course this is only to give numbers, it might not be a usefull move against all these chars and can even be a terrible one in some occasions (Dhalsim pops to mind). And obviously not worth the trade for EX projectiles or Gouken’s fully charge fireball.
He’s supposed to get +10% in defense. Which is basically what we can see for normal damage as well as chipped damage that is a multiple of 10.
So I think the weird percentage for chip damage you see only come from the rounding up of damage and rounding down of displayed percentage:
For multiple hit combos, the first two hits are 100%, the third hit is scaled down to 80%, fourth to 70%. With Oilkan, I’m not sure whether the oil bonus is calculated before or after the scaling down, and I’m to lazy to test that out right now, since it won’t make a huge difference in the end with the rounding up of damage and down of displayed percentage.
So with Hakan oiled, you’ll get 90% on first to hits, and then approx. 72-73% on third hit and 63-64% on fourth hit, but these values might vary a bit.
If someone knows a move that does 100 damage and can be placed in third or fourth position in a combo, we can check this out. ^^
i’ve been keeping like a bit within mid screen distance, and just going for unoiled slide to make them knockdown. the projectile they throw hits you, but they knock down, and you recover faster and you can lk oil safely
j. mk is like the best jump in ever, i cant even begin to list all of the moves it stuffs clean.
f. lk and f. mk stuff so many low pokes, i havent come across a low poke that beats them yet.
f. mp has one of the most deceptive hitboxes ever.
f. lp is a god send, it hits crouchers and has high priority it even stuffs sciccor kicks.
im thinking hakan is a very solid character to turtle with and throw out pokes and sit on a life lead and then wait for the opponent to fuck up and then punish and oil up.
s.MP is my flavor of the month. it can counter-hit combo into itself, sweep, c.mk (then into slide if desired). It’s fast, has decent range, and provides a semi-frame trap into s.HP. It can combo from standing jab so it’s more than decent for a pressure sequence from s.LP(x2). When oiled, you can go for a rocket after s.mp makes contact on either block or hit. And since s.MP can’t cancel, you don’t risk whiffing a rocket while the other player is in block stun. Finally, you’re actually at +1 frame advantage on block, so there’s absolutely no risk to this move getting blocked, as is the case with so many of Hakan’s other normals.
st.MP is a normal I scarcely used, but I pulled out a few of them yesterday against a Dictator and hurt him really bad with it. It even stuffed scisor kicks.
I was going to look into it, so thanks for the tips. 
Could very well be one of his best counter pokes.