Recently SSF4 players both Xbox and Ps3 onliners been playing Makoto. I’m having trouble putting up a hard fight. it seems as if most of my safe moves cr lp, lp, run stop into Running overhead HK has been getting punished. Her command grabs are quick. Plus her axe is not punishable at all at least for me. even cr MP can’t break through her jump in HP can’t seem to punished by st lp or st HK. Im a new comer to AE, also Bushin player preparing to make tourny entries. Any tips? and thanks for any postings.
I’m not sure if Guy can actually beat the jump in HP if cr mk doesn’t do the trick, then you’re stuck to either TK Izuna or EX Tatsu. Her command may be quick but its an easy read to when she may do it most of the time, especially if you’ve played/watched 3s matches against her. She has good pokes, but a crappy defense. Her only options or EX karakusa and EX chop both are risky and most will just block, backdash or ex chop. EX chop isn’t invincible forever though. Basically this game will go on towards footsie on the ground because Makoto has a fast dash, good normals, and really doesn’t need to take to the air that often. She can AA you though, fairly well. So be wary of your jumpins and crossups, LP Fukiage, wrecks any cross up that isn’t a safe jump and she’ll either beat you clean or trade and its in her favor because you’ll be in a juggle state. Her axe kick you can TK izuna or burn meter, I’m sure at certain distances normals can be used but most Maks will use it in the middle of block strings to catch crouch techs and such. You just have to be wary and block. Watch for any patterns especially since she may go for a karakusa. Remember once you get in on her Makoto really can’t do much.
Poke with st mk, st hp, st mp and cr mp. Also OS when you do safe jumps Makoto’s only options require her to burn meter or backdash, if you break her options she will have to sit through your pressure which is always good.
Also mix up your blockstrings, go into TC lp/mp bushin flip or run overhead, and use FADCs after some lp hozantos to add more pressure. Use frametraps as well,
Thanks Blooddrunk I think I use this knowledge for Maks she’s just so damn fast.
I don’t advise using the cr.LP, cr.LP+HK and cr.LP, cr.LK+HK option selects on Makoto during her wake up, since her back dash leaves her at a distance where cr.HK will not knock down. (This also happens against Balrog.) Use cr.LP OS EX Hozanto instead. Here are the inputs:
[LIST]
[]:d::lp:
[]:qcb:
[]:d::lp::mp: (or :d::lp::hp:)
[/LIST]
If the first cr.LP makes contact, a second cr.LP will come out. If Makoto likes to throw out EX Oroshi (chop / overhead), you’ll need to remember that it’s very similar to C. Viper’s EX Seismic Hammer. It has a few invincibility frames, but it doesn’t have enough to protect her before the move actually hits. cr.LP OS EX Bushin Senpukyaku works well here:
[LIST]
[]:d::lp:
[]:qcb:
[]:d::lk::mk: (or :d::lk::hk:)
[/LIST]
The cr.HK option selects mentioned above have worked for me against EX Oroshi in the past, but last night, I kept getting hit by the attack. So, it’s probably best if you just stick with the OS EX BSK. As for Makoto players who attempt an EX Karakusa on their wake up, maximum range, meaty cr.LKs are very nice. Makoto will absorb the hit, but Guy won’t be grabbed. :tup:
Be sure to check out Makoto’s frame data here: click.
Guy’s back throw to st.MK whiff safe jump works on Makoto. The j.MK will be absorbed by EX Karakusa, but you will still be airborne so you cannot get grabbed. You can also OS with cr.HK, which will beat EX Oroshi before it is active. LP Fukiage will also miss because it has 8 frames of start up.
This forces Makoto to block all back throw safe jump setups while standing, which also enables you to empty jump with cr.LK.
Also, Bushin Clan, you put AE Edition in the thread title. That’s like saying ATM Machine. It’s a common abbreviation mistake so don’t feel bad.
LMAO!! I did. Pretty funny. Didn’t pick up on that. But Thanks for the tips. It sounds judging from the other brothers that posted tips, it is possible for Guy to be a rush down player against Makoto.
Thanks will do as far as looking up the frame data. But I gotta ask: How should one handle Maks Focuses? IMO it is the quickest in the game and hard to deal with, back dashing is bad news as well as TC’s. What would you or anyone reading this would do in regarding Guy to have good offense and defense for the Focus? Appreciate the the tips and responses. Bushinryu should flood EVO 2012!
As a Makoto player, I recommend using a lot of c.LK/c.LP and c.MP buffer pokes to keep Makoto’s dash game honest, and to beat a lot of Makoto’s pokes depending on distance. Once you get into a footsie game, c.HK beats 99% of her normals and specials, so once you’re in, stay in with lots of throws and good frame traps. Makoto’s c.LK is 4 frames, so it’s pretty easy to frame trap her. Keep in with Run Stop pressure, and throw a bit more than usual to keep Makoto honest with her EX Karakusa usage, and possibly open the Makoto up if the player wants to start using Tsurugi to counter the throws (which means frame trap frame trap frame trap).
Don’t safe jump after Run Slide if Makoto has meter, you will get grabbed EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Can’t even empty jump it and jump.
Never jump directly at her, c.MK is a brain dead answer to everything Guy can do in the air, and LP Fukiage destroys everything. If you jump, make sure she’s knocked down or you try to bait a Fukiage with an early elbow.
Makoto gets a ton of safe jumps from her knockdowns, U2 is really good against her to limit this. If the Makoto Tsurugis late, she’ll dodge, but you can catch this with EX BSK.
In regard to focus you can do a few things, OS EX hozanto or EX tatsu, hozanto is generally better because it will catch her back dash you can also do it on reaction to catch her if she does Focus. Or you can EX Run, asborb the hit or if she backdashes you can slide… and if you absorb the hit do whatever you please Stop and punish slide. etc.
You can empty jump lk tatsu or EX tatsu. But that’s about it to defeat her EX karakusa, this can be done to Zangief and his Grab has a 2 frame start up.
One tip that I can give is learn he range of her forward dash. I don’t have much makoto experience but I know she cant hit you within a certain distance. one of the only ways for her to approach is to dash into a certain distance. I try to find the sweet spot where she can’t hit you with her pokes and wait for her to dash and punish.
Target combo eats her Focus for free. And if you see it you can cancel the hp into run stop and get a free bushin chain
if you can’t, the last hit of TC on Counter hit leaves you at +5 so you can plink a st mp into runslide
Man bro I’m glad you brought up her pokes. Alot of the time her foward Mp kills me cause its a frame trap so it seems all can do is block, cause I can’t make a move to cr lp, lp, lk into etc. So I can see your point about looking for a sweet spot.
Don’t forget about your own pokes. st.mp and s.mk.
st.mk should stuff her f.mp attempts.
I haven’t test this yet but when I watched Kiryu’s stream today he played endless with huntaNX (Makoto) and I noticed that he did empty neural jump(after runslide) into EX bushin flip quite a few time and when Makoto went for the grab she whiffed and got thrown,otherwise he continue with his pressure.
Does Ex bushin flip have throw invincibility or what?
All Bushin flips are throw invincible, EX also has projectile invincibility but it ends just before the peak of his rise. So its a useful tool to escape Command grabs and Projectile ultras on wake up with the exception of Chun’s and Roses.
only EX bushin flip is throw invincible, just tested it
Wow, that move seems to be more useful than i thought,thanks for clearing that up guys.:tup:
Bushin Clan, if you could copy the information below the line and paste it into the first post, that’d be great. :tup:
Here are Capcom’s final documented changes for Makoto in AE 2012:
For undocumented changes and discussion, please check out this thread in the Makoto forums:
Meterless Ultra 1 against a Crouching Makoto (corner only): 1). Neck Flip, crLk, Target Combo ~ Low Hozanto, Ultra 1 = 400 dmg - 356 stun. 2). Forward Jump Hk, stMk, crLp, Target Combo ~ Low Hozanto, Ultra 1 = 445 dmg - 516 stun. 3). Crouching Mp, crLp, Target Combo ~ Low Hozanto, Ultra 1 = 400 dmg - 356 stun.