So has anyone found any good combos for guy off of a launch? all I have ever used is HK>TC>Tatsu but there must be something better than that D:
St.MP>TC>HK Tatsu
Cr.MP>TC>HK Tatsu
Hits a little more consistently than cl.HK, imo depending on what the launcher animation effects things
Bushin Combo(LP>MP>HP>HK)
cornered HK tatsu can tag cancel, midscreen EX Tatsu drops them straight down for a good tag cancel juggle
corner or well timed midscreen, replace Tatsu with Super, just make sure super activation happens closer they are to ground for full connect.
Not much else as of now, 2013 updates should give more options with Bushin combo being jump cancelable in j.mp>air Izuna. Damage scaling is also an issue.
Ah I see thanks, I will probs just stick with HK>TC>Tatsu then its a shame nothing can really be done with his run to extend his combos a bit more.
So for my first post-update team I am picking between Guy/Paul and Raven/Paul, and while I might discuss the actual synergy factor in the team topic I am posting here because I want to know more about Guy in general.
As a piss poor player looking to become acceptable in time for the 2013 update, how would you suggest playing Guy and what are some of his simplest things to take advantage of while getting to know his style? I know about his run mixups with stop/throw and mid/low, Neck Flip Safe Tag Option Select, and well-spaced sweeps, but not exactly when to do them. I guess first simplest question is when to use run a lot, I am thinking in blockstrings to force a mixup now and again?
I just feel with his aggressive style, link heaviness, and unacceptable frame data he may not be a character for a crap player like me but I really do like him and has bonkers synergy with Paul so I want to try.
Oh and what blockstrings should I be learning?
Use his run to force mixups. You basically can make your opponent have to full screen guess at Run/Stop>Bushin Flip grab/elbow, Run>Slide or Run>Neck Flip. Once you have meter, start working in EX Neck Flip for ground bounce. Up close I don’t use run unless my opponent is able to withstand target combo>LP shoulder mixups, and typically I’ll go for a throw. If they back up out of throw range, I’ll try to LP or MP Bushin Flip to get a crossup elbow or throw.
If they’re standing I’ll go for Run Slide if they* kept standing* under pressure, but once you get players to fear Target Combo>Bushin Flip grab, they’ll be hanging out in low block while they try to figure things out. Then you can work in TC>EX Neck Flip or go for an overhead, blocked LP shoulder leaves you within pretty good range to have it hit.
His best blockstring is Target Combo>LP Shoulder, and the options out of it I posted above. I’m very cautious with his crouching stuff…cr.mp can trade a good deal, cr.mk is a solid anti pressure knockdown because he goes so low, but I’d stick with his St.MP as primary poke, simply cuz it links into self, and trades nicely TC>whatever, super or Cross Art if needed
I see alot of other Guy players do LP Shoulder>Run Stop>then go low with cr.lk or cr.LP…this is a bad idea IMO, because his low jab/short can very easily be raw launched on block. St.MP is far an away his best poke imo.
You have to be able to confidently Bushin Flip>Grab with him. A lot of Guy players never try to flip grab, just elbow. Regular elbow comes in handy but unless you’ve got his mixups down and have your opponent confused, it gets air to aired into full combo. Dunno if you’re one XBL, it’s a key to my gameplan working, if you ever want to see, stop by
All in all, you have to be willing to play him very aggressively against everyone, and he requires a ton of matchup specific knowledge, but he has some surprisingly strong options against alot of characters people rage against. Ask if you have particular matchups, most of them I’ve got something for now.
A typical setup for me is opening the round with either a full screen Bushin Flip, Run Slide or Run overhead if I have EX.
I abuse match starts by throwing stuff behind the “FIGHT” logo , and even though they’re taking that out, it’s still a good way to make your opponent guess. Once I force a knockdown, I tend to back jump on their wakeup. If they don’t roll(which they shouldn’t be in 2013), Guy is safe and you can start his long range mixup again: quickly run in if they whiff something, but if they do roll, backjump and hit Jump HK>cl.HK>Target Combo>LK Tatsu. I do this alot against forward rolls, if you have super meter charged, throw on a super at the end and it’s 516 damage(and gets real nasty depending on your gem setup)
:tup:
Hol. E. **** that was absurdly helpful. I actually feel like Guy might be a reasonable person to learn with now whereas before I thought you had to be an execution monster just to use him in D rank. I have mad issues at the moment with footsies, applying consistent close up pressure with lights, and especially links, so having such a simple blockstring with easily envisioned rewards works wonders for me. The way you describe his having to constantly use pressure but from a run usually, he sounds a lot like an inverse zoner, where you need to know how an opponent will keep you out rather than how they get in, but you still get to operate from fullscreen at times and not just footsy your way in.
Not saying he’s easy of course, just that I am not scared to really try him now.
I am definitely spending all night with Guy, thanks again I will be sure to come here with more questions!
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2
His lights just aren’t that good. Cr.Lp is okay under severe pressure, but only if you’re right next to them. You can play footsie with his cr.LK, but it’s not AE version, and it’s not like Chunster’s cr.lk,cr.lk,cr.lk>boost combo level of reliable. One tick is okay into TC, but again, I’m very wary of getting raw launched
I do have a few questions. Probably should have asked them earlier rather than rambling on uselessly.
-
You say he does have his mixups from run and fullscreen but with no meter outside of the Neck Flip which is highly unrewarding what it stopping them from just crouching the whole time? I kinda forgot you cannot throw crouchers and his Elbows are blocked by crouchers so how do you condition people out of that? Also what am I using the elbows for if they do not hit crouchers in general, if they somehow hit then good I can combo and if they block then I have ample advantage to go into TC pressure?
-
A corollary to that is did you say I should be trying RunxxStop, Bushin Flip from fullscreen now and again as a kind of thing? Probably not doing it as fast as I can but it seems like there’s so much time in between the stop and the flip, let alone the flip getting to the opponent.
-
Do you happen to know the startup frames of st.MP and cl.MP?
-
I’m still wallowing in D/D+ play, where everyone pretty much jumps more than walks and pretend dashing does not exist. Doesn’t jump reaction to everything kind of mess up far-screen run mixups, or is that when I just go apeshit catching them with flips and Air Throw?
I also have something to add. You list a bunch of amazing things Guy can do from blocked TC, but there isn’t really an option that lets him to safely tag out. If you cancel Neck Flip from it and Option Select a Tag Cancel on the first hit, then you either hit a croucher for damage (admittedly doing nothing especially if you need to tag out) or they stand, you autoTC the first hit, and the second hit allows your other character to come in for a free mixup. Seems kinda useful, until this is taken away in 2013.
1)His elbows do hit crouchers, you just have to make sure he’s coming down right on top of their head. Past that he’ll land behind them and get punished. Cross ups more ambiguous. If TC gets blocked, try LP Bushin flip and go over their head and land a grab. Since the grab doesn’t connect low, if they try to crouch it next time to avoid it, or try to jab during Bushin Flips startup frames, then go back to the elbow and you should get the hit. His overhead isn’t comboable except on counterhit(even then it’s hard to get), but try hitting with overhead from range. If they react right and block it, immediately try his cr.HK slide to see if you can score a knockdown(or tick into TC from, if it’s far enough). If they block overhead and you get them to go low, throw out another overhead. Force them guess. A big part of Guy’s TC pressure is forcing them to make a mistake. Put enough pressure on them and players will try pushing buttons. If opponent tries to low poke after blocked overhead, you can throw out a raw launch as well, Guy’s has solid range. Elbow you just can’t telegraph, but a lot of players will try to anti-air Guy on reaction when he goes airborne. Mishimas can get away with it if they get out a jumping MK early enough, but mid screen range and beyond, it’s a tricky proposition, cuz his Bushin Flip has some strange properties on it’s grab range. If you see opponents trying that stuff(usually if you use regular elbow too much), you can start Tiger Knee inputting his instant air Izuna. Works solid if you can get it, but it takes a decent amount of anticipation.
2)It’s footsie game thing. If you land Run Slide, or Run Neck Flip, opponents will try to react to it and counter rather than have to take a guess at what’s coming if it worked already. They can be punished, so I play alot of positional games by throwing out Bushin Flip>Elbow drop out of range, or Run Stop to a position to either go for jumping MK cross-up, standing MK>HK Boost combo, or try an MP Bushin Flip. I usually run stop outside of punishment range, and see if I can get opponent to react badly to the Run itself.
- No. Best guess would be 5-7 frame startup, but I haven’t seen DLC frame data.
4)Random jumps outside of crossup range can be Bushin flipped, Instant Air Izuna you can actually throw out the instant you see them go into their jump animation. If you get someone trying to cross you up, you can F+MP overhead and go under it, leaving them stuck in jump recovery frames. Another set up I use is to cr.HK slide under crossups. You’ll either wind up safe, or if your opponent jumps after you, you can Instant Air Izuna them almost perfectly.
Yeah, I do that too.
I don’t do alot of ground tag cancel stuff outside of the corner with Guy, his TC>MP shoulder gives a bit more float for juggling and is less strict for tag cancelling than LP, otherwise his TC>LK Tatsu is what I go for. If it connects, it’s a nice juggle since it pops straight up, if you need a safe tag cancel, tag in on the first hit and opponent will still be in blockstun, come in and overhead(Good ole’ Heihachi")
I use cr mp, st mp, h tatsu. Gets more tatsu hits, knocks higher into the air if you wanna tag back into another character. Also does slightly better damage than cr mp, tc, h tatsu with better options after. Next character tags in with a jump attack into whatever.
Also never noticed in this game but normal slide (cr h) goes right under fireballs. I like that
-
What I meant was that elbow is not an overhead, I know that it does not whiff crouchers. I was worried about noobs just spamming crouch jab after TC blockstring, but you are right then just play it safe and launch. And if I expect the obvious DP I 'll just block.
-
I see. I started doing something similar on oki after grabs, I’d run and stop to bait DPs or a neutral jump that I’d air throw again.
Thanks again.
You can combo after it too if it doesn’t force knockdown.:tup:
Guy, imo, is a counter hit machine. In sf4, there are many instances where you may have a pressure string going but it will have frame advantage gaps which leave you open to reversal situations. Taking that into account you have to be much more wary. Also many situations to break your offense can be made safe on hit or block.
In sxt, actually having frame advantage feels so nice with this character. Making people have to respect your offense leads to throws and that will net you throws. Landing throwa obviously leads to counter hits or just throw mix ups in general. When you are in with guy, it is hard to get him off. Close S.mk, c.mp, c.sk, c.fp all beat up bad button presses and link into other normals and specials for knockdowns or good damage.
I am running guy / kaz, which I find helps guy with his luke warm damage sometimes. Their teamwork together is alright, sk or mk tatsu nets kaz some damage on the back end with ewgf combos and because guy doesnt use much meter it seems to always be at a surplus for alpha counters or tag attempts out.
In this next revision, I believe this team will be even better off because of the system wide changes. From the meter building nerfs, damage changes, more aa’s (including kaz) and guys buffs, I am going to stick this team out for a bit.
Yeah, I can’t wait for the update’s throws. Will make the up close pressure even more fun.
Your Guy is fun to fight Half-Ro(I hate Guy mirrors, and I suspect you do too, lol). Was trying to raw launch you when you’d do run stops into lows, you started reacting by throwing me out of them. That’ll work even better in 2013.
I’ve been running with Heihachi alot, but sometimes when I really get rolling with Guy, the transition from his mobility to Hei’s tank mode is a little jarring, especially if someone escapes.
Yeah I can hardly get used to one character let alone switching between two different styles which is what this game demands. All I wanted was a tag team partner…
Anyway those all sound like solid anchors for Guy. Atm I am Guy/Christie and while the damage is low and scaling high, they both have great pressure in oki and Guy can get in on anything to help Christie’s lack of doing that.
Well I am also doing Guy/Alisa, which is even less damage, but really I am just trying to learn how to play point and deciding which will be best to start in front of Paul. Paul is totally changing in 2013 so no real reason to hardcore train with him until then.
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2
What do you guys use on block to tag Guy out? Tatsu isn’t always a good idea. Wanna see how overhead tagcancel works in 2013.
By this I’m guessing you mean what move do you use to switch Guy out even if they block? if so run>slide/overhead is really good IMO since its a 50/50 of which way to block and they never seem to try and interrupt it, another good move to use is Guys C.MK, this is good since it hits twice so just switch during the first hit and your incoming character is safe thanks to the second hit. C.MK is also really good when guy is switched in since most people try to interrupt the C.MK after the first hit for some reason and get hit by the second lool.
Also some of you add me on XBL xD I need to play vs more Guy players to see if there is anything I’m doing wrong or not doing, GT is: jin928
Yeah I did run overhead but doesn’t always work well on a block string when they mash jab. Maybe at distance if they don’t have stacked meter? I like the cr mk one never even considered that. Thanks.
LP Shoulder works well on block, not 100% safe, but most of time you’ll wind up okay. Never use Tatsu unless you have meter or just finishing a combo, but on block if you’re aiming to get Guy TC>LK Tatsu leaves you plenty of time to set stuff up if you tag on first hit. Jumping MK from far range is not bad either, St.MK is nearly unpunishable on block as well.