Guy/Bison/Dhalsim general tips

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1

Hi guys.

I started playing usf4 seriously two weeks ago and picked up Yun. Used the great pinned thread to learn some setups, safe jumps, bnbs, etc.
I got to almost 4k BP but since I’m a scrub I struggle to get past 1500PP.

I also got humiliated by some guys.

The first one who really humiliated me was a Bison. He spent the whole match only doing s.hk and double knee presses.
I couldn’t even get close, my divekicks were all stopped by his s.hk, and basically what he did was push me in the corner
with his safe double knee presses, then I couldn’t do much to get past that s.hk. Any hints ?
It’s very hard to whiff punish too, when I tried I used s.mp and either I didn’t touch him, either I was counter-hit.
So yeah. That was a bad match for me…

Second one, Dhalsim. The Dhalsims I play online almost have all the same flowchart play, and yet I can’t beat them, even if I read them like a book.
If the guy is close, he’ll teleport away or mash a throw.
If the guy is close-far, he’ll jump back fierce, or do another anti-air move if he sees me jumping after him.
If the guy is far, he’ll blow a fireball and either throw s.hp behind it or try a teleport mixup (I usually react to them and am able to punish it).
Except the teleport trick, I don’t punish him on anything. This is all zoning, spacing, running, jumping back, and I don’t see how I can punish it.
So, would really love some advices for this matchup. Also, is my hp lunge good as an option select to prevent his teleports? I can’t test right now.

Last one : Guy. I played a Guy, the same guy, for like 10 matches in a row, and I lost them all.
The guy was not even super good (unless that’s the only way to play Guy, but I suspect him to have scrubbed me).
He kept doing those lightning fast low-glides that takes him from the other side of the screen to you in half a second.
When I could block them (which is not easy online), I would punish it, so no problem here.
The nasty overhead is annoying but it isn’t the worst.
The worst is, obviously, his j.dmp (can you even note it like that?), the Guy signature aerial, shoulder hit stopping his jump.

So. This move. Right here. I tried EVERYTHING to anti-air it, but it always traded at best. The hitbox is like super low.
If I wait to do a late lk upkick, I’ll get hit. If I don’t wait, I’ll get hit because of Yun’s hurtbox during that move.
I tried a cl.mk, without any success. Tried cl.hp too, no success. I just couldn’t do anything about that move. Even EX upkicks wouldn’t do it, lol.
When the Guy player noticed that, he kept doing exclusively this move, and taunts. It’s safe on block so I was trying to anti-air him all the time but it never worked.
I think I had never been so mad playing a game. It just seemed absolutely stupid to me. So… Is there a secret button? A secret strategy?
If so, please tell me about it, because I’m at the point where I would rather ragequit a match against Guy that takes more shoulder in my nose.

2

I’ll try to give you some general tips to help you improve against those matchup

Vs Bison (take note that most of this are from ae2012, but should still be able to work in ultra)-

-Bison has a very floaty jump, so make sure your aa against him is on point. It’s free damage everytime he try to jump in on you. i’ll use lk upkick to aa him so if you could convert lk upkick into genei jin, it’ll open up alot of options for you

-double knee press is not safe if it hits too deep, try to learn to judge when it’s unsafe and learn to punish it. You could do cr lp into bnbs as a punish

-ex psycho crusher is punishable on block if he goes through your body. You could use lp lunge punch to punish it. After sometimes they will learn and stop abusing it if they know you know how to punish it.

-teleport is not safe. learn to punish it too.

-if he keeps trying to stand at a range and keep abusing st hk, you could try to fish for st mp. St mp into lp shoulder can be rfadc or genei jin which could be converted into big damage.

-try not to get yourself trap in the corner, if not it becomes a very sticky suitation as he can just abuse his cr lk unless you could get yourself out of the corner somehow.

Vs Dhalsim.

-If he’s trying to zone you out with yoga fire, you could use hp shoulder or ex shoulder to punish yoga fire if you could anticipate when he is going to use it

-I believe dhalsim has difficult with charc who can change their jump arc. So next time you jump into, try to delay your dk abit. But look out for when he has super or ultra.

-If he crossup teleport on you, you could just press st lp and stuff things that he can do.

-Once you got in on dhalsim, don’t give him the chance to run away again. Yun damage output + dhalsim low health and low stun makes it a really bad suitation for him. All the better if you could trap him in tlhe corner, he will begin to slowly kill himself while trying to get out.

Vs Guy.

-Run-slide is not safe and punishable on block. Learn how to punish it

-Guy drop elbow can be low profiled.(Not sure if it changes in ultra already, you might need to test it out)

-If you have difficulty blocking guy overhead. Then the next time he knock you down, just block high unless he has proven to you he can combos off cr. lk.
(Combos off of cr.lk is link so you can test them if they know how to convert off it)

3

Hello hardocan, thank you for your valuable advices.

Two questions however:

  • What do you mean by “low profiled”? It will not touch me if I crouch? I might have to test that one out.
  • Yun’s upkicks doesn’t seem very reliable to me, it often trades, when it touches the opponent. It does work sometimes, of course.
    Is it because I’m using it too early, maybe? Should I do it from a crouching stance?
4

Here’s some answer to your question

  1. Your hurtbox will change when you use certain normal. What low profile means is simply using moves that will lower your hurtbox. So when guy is trying to hit you with elbow drop, just use cr.lk or cr.mk. This will lower your hurtbox and cause guy elbow drop to whiff.

  2. i consider yun lk upkick to be 1 of the better options in the game but keep in mind it needs to hit deep or else it will trade or sometimes you will not get the full 2 hits if you did it too fast. Try to buffer your upkick from a crouching motion and try to delay it abit as it needs to hit deep. You could use ex upkick for aa too but it will require you to spend 1 meter.

5

I will try to use it out of a crouching lk and see if it works better that way, thanks for the advices :slight_smile:

6

You’re welcome :wink:

7

Few tips for your concerns.

General:
You’re doing upkicks to early. Do it later. Practice with Ryu in training mode against a dummy. Properly timed medium/heavy DP will never trade and will always autocorrect unless in the corner. This extremely important for all characters with invincible uppercuts/anti-airs like Seth, Ken, Akuma, Ibuki, Cammy, Guile, and so on. I cringe when I see invincible anti-airs trade especially at high level play. Also, you say you’re punishing things, but I hope you’re punishing as hard as you can.

VS Bison:
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[] When his headstomp/devil’s reverse nonsense walk back. If he tried to headstomp, it will whiff. Cr.mp as he touches the ground in front of you and combo off of it. If he tries to hit you with devil’s reverse lk. upkicks will beat it clean with proper timing. If he just feints and goes back to where he was, maybe use lunge punch to gain space as he falls. BTW this would apply to the Vega’s similar move (so you don’t have to purely rely on focus as your only option).
[] If your dive kicks are getting destroyed by his st.rh, maybe you’re dive-kicking too predictably. Work on recognizing your instincts and going against them; feel the urge to jump and don’t. Walking forward while he looks for a jump that never came means you gain space. Also, I problem I see with a lot of Yun players is that they always dive kick. Try just jumping forward and possibly over his st.rh.
[] If he’s not doing st.rh on reaction, but he’s just throwing it out randomly, you should know it’s range and work to punish it. Plenty of ways to do this. Crouch at the range where it whiffs over your head whiff punish with cr.mp. Crouch at the same range, and after it whiffs walk forward and cr.mk xx lp. shoulder. It might not hit him, but if he blocks you get chip damage and push him back, punishing by gaining space. You might try to stand farther away whiff punish with fst.lp xx lp. lunge punch. You can just jump at him after him he whiffs and not dive-kick using the idea from the previous bullet point, punishing by getting in.
[] If you get in, try jumping over him and using lk. divekick. For example, he blocks your divekick which touches his toes, you jump immediately after and lk. divekick, crossing him up for a possible combo. This can punish his tech attempts and sets you up for throws later. He has no response to this except a preemptive air-to-air such as jb.hp or nj.hk.
[] If he’s using scissor kicks predictably, you should punish with a combo starting with a neutral jump.
[] Punish his EX psycho crusher on block; you can do a meaty cr.mp and probably recover in time to block.This is especially important in the corner since you don’t want to cross him up and let him out.
[*] Learn to option-select to punish his teleport. Do cr.lk qcf wait st.lp. This is one option select and it is ground based. If you cr.lk and he teleports, light lunge punch comes out and you will be in range to punish with st.mp xx mk. upkicks or st.mp xx mp. lunge punch. This will also punish back-dash.
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VS Dhalsim:
[list]
[] Know the range of his back knee anti-air. Jump at the range where if you empty jump forward, it whiffs. Jump at this range and punish the whiffed knee with cr.mk xx lp. shoulder, or just dive kick after landing.
[] Use the same option-select as for Bison to punish both his back dashes and teleports. I’m not sure if OS hp. lunge punch hits, I know OS EX lunge punch works and they have the same startup, but different active frames (EX doesn’t get all of the hits so hp. lunge punch probably whiffs).
[*] If he’s hitting you with air-to-air jb.hp, you need to lk. divekick to end your jump early and gain space as he falls. If you mean he does jb.hp when you’re close and on the ground (AKA Yoga sniper), You should know the range it works and be further away from him or closer. If you happen to block it, or maybe even if you get hit with it, you could probably punish it with a lunge punch or shoulder.
[/list]

VS Guy:
[list]
[] I use timing to block Guy’s running shenanigans. If he does run slide, I crouch block by the time it would hit. I stand block at the time while I should be in block stun from his run slide and this allows me to block his running overhead as well since it would hit later than the slide would. So… option-select block low/high.
[] If you mean you’re having trouble with his normal overhead, then you just deal with it like everyone else: get hit by it or block it. Everyone gets hits by unexpected overheads… but you shouldn’t get hit by it if you expect it. If you expect it, you can block at the right time based on his patterns, you can back dash, you can focus, you can even focus then backdash, or you can focus and release it for a possible crumple.
[*] As for Guy’s falling elbow, as I said earlier, you need to work on your uppercut timing so it should punish him from dropping in on you. It should autocorrect if he past you and drops. Also, you didn’t try forward heavy punch; it’s a great anti-air that I don’t think is used enough. You can even get a lunge punch or ultra after you go under him if you’re in the corner, for no meter!
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8

Hey guys I’m compliing a matchup guide for Yun using the information I’ve found here, so far I’ve gotten all of what @RMZ wrote… And I’m really digging how @SRKSieg has layed out his info so I think he should be the one doing the write ups maybe with some help from Rmz I think we can really have something solid. There’s still a lot of matchups missing… Most notable are Ken, Seth, EvilRyu, Cammy, Decapre, Fei long. @SRKSieg reply let me know what you think…

9

… =) I’m around I’m about. I’ll be a bit AFK Thursday onwards because I’m off to China this weekend but I will try to help to the best of my ability anytime after, I still have a ways to go and learn myself personally.