Just had a general question as I’m surprised by the amount of preference for Guile vs Nash, which seems to contradict with some of the criticisms of shoto clones. Anyways, besides some minor differences, I was trying to find out how different the play styles would be if Nash was actually in SF4. From alpha 1, I remember his main difference being his light flash kick was safe on block. Guile has the sobat kick and forward kick, but maintains his knee. The only other difference I saw was nash had a downhitting flash kick (but i think that was a vs move). Is there anything else that differentiates their play styles?
Overall, I think Remy provides greater difference an variance in play style, with his multiple sonic booms and jumping command kick, but there doesn’t seem to be much love for the guy.
Well, depending on the game, I play one of those 3 characters.
Remy has interesting specials but horrible normals (hitting low with him is a mission in and of itself), and he is very low tier in his game. If he had appeared in a game where zoning was more important, he might have been something, but he’ll most likely simply be forgotten.
Guile is…Guile. He’s a beast in a lot of games he’s in, and was the original top tier. Two great specials combined with excellent normals. Plus shades.
Charlie is the least interesting I feel. He’s way to much a clone. If he ever came back, they’d need to really change it up to give him a different feel.
Thanks to responders, with the recent pic tweet, i saw a lot of people hoping for nash, but I’ve only played alpha 1 and 2, so couldn’t really remember any big differences about him. I tried googling all over the place, but couldn’t get any clear description of differences between them. Except for looks, I wonder if people just like him more because of the alpha mechanics (air blocking, etc) that generally allowed him to be a bit more aggressive?
It seems there should be enough material for capcom to make two Guile clone derivatives. You could have a sonic boom based character and a flash kick based character, maybe even say they trained charlie who combined the forms.
Sonic boom guy could throw different angles of sonic booms based on punch (high, low, and then angled up?), but instead of flash kick, have him jump at different angles based on kick (ub, u, uf) and throw down a sonic boom like Akuma.
Flash kick guy would have normal flash kicks, but instead of sonic booms, perhaps have a jumping forward/arching sonic kick that goes over fireballs and maybe even overheads?
Lol …most people would prefer Charlie over Remy for just knowing the character overall and nothing to do with gameplay reasons.
as far as gameplay Remy shits on both Guile and Charlie in the same way Dudley shits on Balrog, and that’s because they have much improved and more exciting gamestyles than their counterparts.
Remy has a much better moveset and top Remy players have proven he is NO pushover.
some don’t think Remy can zone well in 3S??? LOL people responding not even playing the game. Remy can zone very well if you play a good Remy. You ever play a stocked Remy throwing EX lovs at you?? Great Remys know how to play him other than trying to play keep away, as Remy has more better options than Guile and charlie in that respect.
Can you imagine how well Guile and Charlie would fare in 3S?? No where near the level of Remy unless Capcom gave them insane priority like with Chun (since they figured her moves were too basic for the engine and wanted to make her strong).
Charlie and Guile are great characters, but nowhere near as good as Remy if anyone was paying attention without their fanboy shades on.
Pierrot vs RX. This video is insane and I won’t spoil the winner, and the point is too show how good Remy can be in the right hands.
[media=youtube]9jEPVdhaz3M[/media]
I think just that kind of character in general would have failed in 3S. Parrying makes Sonic Booms/Lov use kinda’ pointless unless you’re playing someone who doesn’t know how to parry and/or the player mastered Auto-fire. Even then other characters can punish the fuck out of that. If CVS2 had a parry system like in 3S Guile would’ve been destroyed. And yes I know about P groove, but it was executed very poorly by the devs and doesn’t act anything like it did in 3S.
I’d agree somewhat with that. Remy has more options, sure. But it’s not that hard to parry EX Lovs. About the only thing Remy can do if you’re parrying that shit is do a Cold Blue Kick, or try to dash in time to hit you, but it’s really hard to do that. Plus certain characters can really punish that like Alex’s EX Stomp or I think Necro can punish that with some well timed Drills and that Overhead (I think it was called the Flying Viper?) where he flies into the air and bitch slaps fools.
Remy’s biggest problem is the amount of damage/stun he takes. Because all it takes is two good combos and he’s really fucked. He has no good low attacks to link into. And crHP gets beaten out by half the cast’s jump ins (the Shoto’s jHK beats a lot of things for example).
I understand SF4 fucked people up in the transition, but even taking that into consideration Balrog is a bit more effective than Dudley in my eyes. Sure Dudley has Omg cool combos, but taking damage scaling into effect it means very little. And movelist wise I don’t see anything to put him over Balrog.
Remy may have twin projectiles, but the main reason he got that is because they probably knew it wouldn’t be that hot in 3S’s system. Guile/Charlie have better versions of flashkick, supers, better normals, better combos, and more robust stamina ratings.
I thought Nash/Guile have consistently had no ability to link into a crMK? Unless I’m totally wrong of course. But memory serves that they’ve rarely been able to link into crMK. Which is a big deal in a game like 3S. And yeah I’d agree if Remy was in any other game, he’d actually be pretty good, solid mid tier.
Whoever said Remy has poor normals is nuts. It’s actually one of the few things he’s got going for him. He’s low-tier but his normals are extremely solid
His st.HP sometimes trades with Chun’s pokes, of all people
Guile and Nash’s are still superior in comparison, and furthermore provide more combo options (depending on game).
They don’t need it. Charlie can combo booms, flashkicks off of lps and lks, same with Guile in later games. No matter what they have also been always able to combo off of mps as well. In Street Fighter EX, Guile can link mks, and you can combo off the mk. He can combo off lks and lps like Charlie in EX as well. And saying Remy would be good “in any other game” is moot because I guarantee his sonic booms would be modified in a game without parry, and furthermore it would be redundant for the most part with Guile/Charlie.
True, but that works against those characters in 3S. Since he cannot combo off of crMK, this forces him to either use crLK or crMP. If he uses crMP, that’s an easy parry, and most players who fight Remy know that. If he does crLK, that doesn’t beat anything on wakeup, and he can get grabbed through it. Because of this he has limited options.
Believe it or not Remy has really bad normals. His close HP is complete garbage. Towards HP is pretty decent. and stHK and stMK are good pokes. His jump in HK/HP while being particularly good (and HP being able to juggle) they do tend to whiff unless your spacing is right on. crMK is an okay poke. His overhead MK is just asking for the other guy to destroy you because it’s so slow. He has the worst sweep in the entire game (Sean’s is better, keep that in perspective) as it’s slow as fuck and the 2nd hit is really easy to parry. His jumping MK is a good poke, but can’t link into anything. His target combo MK-HK is shit, the HK will whiff half the cast. Even then you could just do close HK into whatever, but you have to be really close or he does this weird poke that can’t be linked into.
Forgot to mention that crHP is a good launcher but it gets beaten by stupid shit like the Shoto’s jHK or Dudley’s jHP, etc. Plus factor parrying into it, and it’s a pretty slow move too. So yeah, it’s cool to use once or twice, but you’re insane to use it any more than that.
So yeah, Remy has a lot of shit going against him. He’s got some interesting shit too. But he’s the 3rd worst character in 3S for a reason.
And that reason has little to do with his normals being good or bad
Normals being good don’t mean much in 3S. Chun is beast because her SA2 is retarded easy to confirm and build meter for, and deals a shitload of damage, not just because her pokes are good. Yun is beast because of GJ, without it he’d probably rank around or lower than Ryu
Elena has better normals than 2/3 of the cast and is considered low tier. Urien has poor normals sans his j.HK and ranks near the top. If the poking and counter-poking game of other SFs had high importance in 3S, the tier list would be completely different - Necro would rank high, Dudley would be the second best character, etc. This is clearly not the case
You gotta’ be nuts to think that good normals don’t make a character. Chun is a bitch even without SA2 because of her poking game and her kara throws. Beatable, certainly. But she can still hold her own without that meter. Even if Yun didn’t have Genei-Jin, he’d still be really good. With SA1 he’d be high tier still. His dive and mixup games are awesome. And he can link off pretty much anything, and his specials have awesome priority. Elena isn’t used very much because her game is kinda’ like Chun’s: Based mostly on pokes and kara-grabs. People don’t use her too much because she has very few links into Super or really damaging combos. Elena’s gameplay is more like: Poke-Poke-Poke-grab-air poke-poke-crMP into xxx- poke- SRK on wakeup. That’s basically her. Imagine Chun if she had a good wakeup, but didn’t have good links into SA. Urien has great normals, you’re retarded if you think otherwise.
Totally agree that Remy was designed for another game. We all know why he was added to 3S because the ST players wanted that familiarity (which was why Chun was added) so they added characters that sorta’ resembled the ST cast, but played like Hybrids. I like Remy but I keep thinking how much more interesting it would have been if the Devs added a character loosely based off of Dictator or Claw.
Lol. Try using SA1 Chun against anyone that isn’t a complete baddie at 3S. Yeah man all these cr.MK xx EX SBK will fucking end the round
Yeah bro, no offense meant but maybe you shouldn’t be talking about 3S - Elena’s wakeup is extremely poor, and her DP+K should NOT at all be used as wakeup reversal except once in a blue moon, EX version. The non-EX ones have no invincibility and way too many startup frames
Also, her DP is a shit, unsafe, easily parried anti-air - You’re supposed (read: What you do if you know what you’re doing) to use back + HK which not only deals more damage than a LK DP+K, but also is way safer on parry/whiff
My point was that Elena has a decent wakeup that she can super cancel into. Chun doesn’t have that. You can hit Chun out of EX Spinning Bird Kick. You cannot hit Elena out of EX SRK. That’s a fact dude. You’re not going to win an argument that Chun has a better wakeup than Elena.
Go stir the shit somewhere else. Like DSP’s forum, there’s a trolling section there just for you.
