Guile thread

Classic Fighting Games Super Street Fighter II Turbo
161

Following cancelling a boom against Ryu’s Hadoken, I hit him with the tip of a f+MK Sobat.
What next?

Inclination is go to for a d.MK, maybe another and throw a boom.

Even though those two moves don’t combo, the frame advantage on both is good enough to stuff everything Ryu does, but you know he may just be good enough to mash a jab DP out of it.

However, immediately following those two MK’s, you can go for a boom / flashkick right?
The risk seems negligable, I’d go for the two d.MK’s.

Maybe next time a d.MK, whiff two rapid fire jabs, boom.

Of course you nail him with back fist following the boom/hadoken cancel you push him too far out, what then?

walk forward, f+MK sobat?
walk forward, d.MK?

–
I love going for meaty d.MP’s xx boom against my bro, but I realize he’s not good at Reversals in the game yet, and that shit could be thrown since you’re so close.
Nothing wrong going for a meaty boom following a knockdown though.

I always found it interesting how whiffing jabs fast while charging sorta keeps them at the ideal range you left them at, they can’t walk back right? Or is my memory fucked up?
In this situation, what is the ideal high-priority poke that stuffs things…

d.LP?
d.MP?
ye’oldie d.MK? (keeping it in check to bait DP’s?)

This situation doesn’t seem limited to just fighting Ryu, it’s pretty much vs any fireball character that’s a threat…
Ryu, hadoken, DP
Chun, kikoken, Super (walk speed, throw, s.MP)
etc.

I’d go for s.HK more often were it faster, and were this CvS2 :lol:

162

I think my generic action there would be low jab, low forward. Then walk backwards, or sonic boom, or do nothing. Sobat-> low forward as a generic play seems risky.

I tend to go for the backfist by default, and then my generic followup is backwards sobat, and then sonic boom. If he threw an immediate fireball you may have to block or jump up or whatever. If he really loves to throw fireballs after being backfisted, then tag him with a jump in eventually.

I think backfist followed by walking forward and attacking is probably going to get you in trouble.

Also isnt whiffing lots of low jabs against ryu going to get you swept?

I think alot of Guile’s have the wrong philosophy in the Ryu match:
Its not that Guile is trying to get in and Ryu is trying to keep him out. It’s more the other way around… Guile is throwing sonic booms all day long making it hard for Ryu to get in. If Ryu overdoes the fireballs, Guile can tag him with kicks to the face, but Ryu doesn’t have the same luxury.

your offense mostly consists of little hit and run sessions: Get in, do a sobat, maybe a low jab low forward, then walk backwards and go back to throwing booms.

163

Just getting a strat session going.
So we’re basically going for 1 hit the whole time, that and chip.

Yeah, whiffing a lot of low jabs would get you swept.
A d.LP, d.MK looks good, though you said you go for backfist more, perhaps in Sagat’s case then.

Guess I’m fishing for patterns to use on the fly and avoid when they become common in a match. How is it said again, the stuff you do throughout the most makes the things you do the least (the safest and most effective of which) that much more unexpected?

How often do JPN Guile’s walk forward and throw?

—which sonic booms would you use in these instances?
I think up close about sweep range I’d use Fierce, throughout the rest of the screen anything goes for spacing purposes really.

—How about just getting close enough to backfist after a boom?
It seems patience and allowing blocked fireballs to push you back after a jump in or two knee bazookas are expected, or an occasional anticipated jump spaced and timed right so as to be rather out of range for a DP…
Or do you walk forward and only build charge once you’ve gained a good amount of footing here?

I’m not particularly interested in combos with Guile anyway since he never struck me as a “combo machine” in the first place.

164

Its not really about chip per se, as it as about countering all the moves (hurricanes, jump straight up, jump towards, fireballs) that your opponent tries to use to get around your sonics. Thats where your damage comes from.

I guess I use backfist not sobat becuase Im tending to cancel fireballs with sonics from long range where I need the full range of the backfist.

I rarely try to throw after a blocked sonic boom… the risk/reward just isnt there. On the other hand following a sonic and then throwing after ducking for a sec to make them block, or just doing the throw at awkward suprising times is ok once in a while.

Against Ryu I tend to throw fierce sonics, but mix in jab ones to make it harder for him to short hurricane over them.

Here’s a really important thing about getting around Ryu fireballs:

If Ryu is hailing fireballs on you from full screen, then you have the option of seeing a fireball, and jumping forward on reaction and landing safely. This requires no guesswork… you see the fireball, then empty jump foward, and Ryu cant do anything if you did it quickly enough (from full screen).

165

Think maybe you’re right.
I do try to sneak in pokes whenever I can, however I can, all while storing charge, making the most of those times when I have the initiative in close.
That gameplan is obviously flawed.

Good discussion though.
Think I take the sobats usage from fighting Sagat often, since you can’t backfist his low tigers.

166

He is a meaty combo that I picked up from Thomas Osaki at Evo 2k2(using old Guile).

As the opponent is about to get up, throw out a meaty low forward+ low strong+flash kick(old, and new guile).

You can use low forward+stand strong+flash kick on these characters: Sim, Zangeif,
Sagat, T-hawk, Bison. This only works with Old Guile.

I was going to call it the Bradford combo, I’d rather give Thomas the credit.

167

why does it only work with old guile?

168

mainly because, the stand strong does not link off of the low foward with new guile, however low strong is still linkable.

169

Why is this? I thought old and new guile have the same low forward and stand strong.

170

Actually this is a known OG-combo. Apart from Thomas Osaki, there were people like Tomo and Jeff Schaefer doing it back in the day. I think Jeff invented it.

klick me

He even tried it against Daigo, but messed up the timing due to AE being faster than HF.

171

I know of the combo, I just didnt think there was an obstacle to doing it with new guile. and if there is, I would think it would also apply to old guile in ST.

172

Thats true I did learn the low foward+stand strong+flash kick from Jeff Schaefer when I faced against him at family fun in LA days after he played Daigo.
He’s a really cool dude btw, hes not a dick like some other pros that I have talked to.

btw: although this is irrelvent to ST, in SF4 Guile can still do meaty low forward+low strong+ flash kick as Jason Cole(A-dhalsim) reported to me.

173

No brian, for some reason old guile can link the standing strong off of a low forward, but new guile can’t.

Try it on an emu st on your computer using new guile against sim or zangief.

174

I havent tested it, but ok if this is true, why is this? Is old guiles low forward actually better? I didnt think that was the case.

Is old guiles standing or low strong better? That would also be surprising.

175

I actually like these sequences, holding off on “aggressive” or “random” throws, having a background pattern of using “punishing” throws makes the former two’s likeliness less likely.

Is this all there is to the Ryu match?
What about how it changes when he has meter?
Do you refrain from booms all the time? Or try to achieve a range where you can throw one and he’ll try to blast through it with his super on reaction?
Guess what I’m trying to say is how do you go about baiting it? Or is the answer "You don’t,"
and you’re left with just jumping his regular hadoken’s until he tries something else?

176

I don’t really understand what you mean. Why would you refrain from throwing sonic booms when he has meter?

When Ryu has meter I mostly stop trying to poke and almost exclusively throw sonic booms (as well as counter his attempts to get in). Remember that if you’re throwing sonic booms from across the screen and Ryu jumps forward over one, you should insta jump towards roundhouse him.

Throw sonic booms from a distance. If he does a super you recover in time. The loss of inputs during a super flash will prevent you from throwing a boom at a time where the super would actually be able to hit you.

If he throws a super, block it if you have no choice, but otherwise jump back or jump straight up to avoid the chip.

177

guess I lost my mind with that question. yesterday was a really screwy one at work.
Grand theft auto, domestic violence, attempted suicide. What a day.
to be honest I don’t know what I meant either.

178

I came across a stash of good Guile vs. Ryu action on YouTube. A total of 20 matches in all. I’ve watched the first 8, and its tied 4-4 (I’m rooting for Guile, notice how this wasn’t posted in the Ryu thread…hehe). These aren’t my videos and obviously, its not me playing.

You can find the first match here. Look through u1yutty’s videos to find the other 19. [media=youtube]O7R1G9cHgGU[/media]

The videos don’t identify the players, but they play at a high enough level to be useful. Lots of safe jumping attacks by the Ryu player keeping the Guile off his flashkick, and other good high level stuff for this particular matchup.

I hope you enjoy these and remember, root for Guile or go home and be a family man! :wgrin:

edit
Just finished watching the set of 20, and by my count it came out a tie, 10/10. The finale (match 20) was a great finishing match.

179

what basics do i need to practice if want to learn guile?

180

The #1 basic rule for Guile is Always Be Charging (ABC). This rule will allow you to throw sonic booms more often, and will leave you charged for a flashkick to knock anyone out of the sky.

This can go to extremes, meaning every time you jump, you immediately start charging again (as in, when you play Guile, you jump motion is really forward-up > down back to start charging again, before you even see Guile jump on screen).

Another example of ‘advanced’ charging is making your sonic boom motion; charge back > forward > back + punch button. You have to be really fast, but if done right, it will give you an extra few frames of charging for you next boom/kick.

Practice this from the beginning when starting to play Guile.

The next thing I would practice is throwing a sonic boom (preferably with the method described above) and then do one of Guile 2 kicks that advance him on the screen (f + short or roundhouse) WITHOUT losing your sonic boom charge. This has to be done be moving the joystick from down-back to back without going to neutral. If done correctly you can sonic boom immediately after coming out of the kick’s animation. If the spacing is right, after the kicks, you can mix it up by throwing or doing low foward instead of doing sonic booms.

I will post some more stuff to practice in a bit or you can ask some questions. Hope you find this helpful.