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Amazing set between me and paskis the other day. Im going to upload more of our sets. Simply Hot Shit lol.
Good shit Mars. I fucking love the Guile v. Sagat matchup.
Thx man i have another vid, there will be 2 parts. Great Sets.
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Keep em coming, I’m learning a lot from these, let’s see some ST guile too 
I’d love to see some O.Guile, as that’s who I play. All I’m learning from these sets, is how much I wish O.Guile was more like CE Guile 
What are the differences? I see a quicker low forward and a different boom recovery animation. I guess the boom recovery is better for CE Guile, but what else?
Buffed normals all across the board, especially his cr.forward, which is given slightly more range. He does more damage on all of his moves, his standard anti-airs feel like they have better priority, and at the very least, trade in your favor. Sonic boom recovery and charge time feels the same.
Basically CE guile is just a beefier version of O.Guile…he’s more better.
Ce guile damage output is pretty high, I think that’s the main thing that makes him different. Accorrding to the yoga book hyper, ce guiles low forward is about 14 damage points(which apparently is the same as st) but the range on his hitbox is a lot longer then st guile and o guile. Hf guile is about the same but only does 10 damage points compared to 14 and damage isn’t as high but still higher then super turbo and super characters. As for the sonics, ce guile sonic is slightly less recovery then st guiles sonic and flash kick has way bigger hot box. Hf guiles sonic has the worst recovery time of all the versions and ww guile is like ce but has no speed difference between the boom, so if you were to do jab, medium or heavy sonic, they would all be the same. I’m going to upload some more st vids for the time being. El trouble you played really well against wats I don’t see anything I would do different in your matches.
Pretty good analysis of comparisons between the different versions. I always felt like HF and CE were very similar, but CE just felt slightly better, and you’ve confirmed it.
Thanks Mars. Very flattering compliment coming from such a top level Guile player. I honestly felt like that was some of the best Guile play I’ve ever done. I’ve had plenty of mistakes though, plenty of stupid guess jump-ins, mis-timed sonic booms, etc etc.
What I found most surprising, is that Guile’s neutral fierce, if properly timed, can beat out Sagat’s tiger uppercut on start up. Also, there was a point where I caught him with a cr.forward, and it beat out his tiger uppercut clean. Odd shit, and even Watson himself couldn’t believe that happened. I guess HF Guile’s cr.forward hurt box is slightly behind the tip of his foot.
Lol thx for the compliments I wish I was as good as people say hehehehe. But in that match, id say its about 6 to 4 sagat. Yea low forwand can stuff uppercut and trade with tigers. O guile is sorta a mixed bag. I would say he’s more close toward ce due to damage from the low ce forward being bacck to 14 and less recovery time on sonics, but everything else is weaker priority. I’m curious as to where people say o guiles low forward is better then st guiles lol. Its the same thing as stated in yoga book.
Wow interesting. Where did you find this data before wiki? Yoga book it states there actually the same and also somebody on the don’t blow this forums posted differences too and they were exactly the same. Also to note o guile flash kick is better as an anti air becuause the hit box directs sliglty upword then st guile.
http://golden-songs.com/ssf2st/theoryfighter.html
I believe this is uploaded from the dbt forums thanks to pillowface but clearly both damages are the same.
http://golden-songs.com/ssf2st/theoryfighter.html
As you can see here, both damage outputs are the same. Big Thanks to Pillowface for uploading this find at DBT. I think theres more testing to be done though. What do you guys think?
hey, the wiki and the theory fighter info is completely different. Which is accurate? According to the wiki, hawks normals do a shit ton more damage then n hawk. but on that theory fighter site, its the same. which is the right numbers?
The numbers from theory fighter are copied from takiba’s website and ybh.
The numbers from the wiki are found by osbr & b2spd using dammit’s/pasky’s script.
osbr, do you take 10 numbers from the engine and average it out? or is the damage output constant?
Agreed. Guile v. Sagat feels more even than when playing the same match in ST. O.Sagat v. O.Guile is a pretty uphill battle, considering that o.sagat is better than his old versions, whereas o.guile is a watered down version of his CPS1 days.
Not sure who said that his low forward is better, it feels exactly the same. MAYBE a slight boost in damage, but nothing to celebrate.
And correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought the yoga book has been known to contain some inaccuracies? Also, I remember papercut discovering a certain combo that worked with Ryu, I think it was cr.short to st.fierce link. It worked great on the emulated ST on his computer, but it didn’t work on arcade ST. That might introduce some inaccuracies as well, when deciphering data on emulated ST.
I got it from the game, using Pasky’s HUD which allowed me to check the damage, and later using Dammit’s lua and breakpoints, which made it possible to see the actual damage formula. Then, I added it to the wiki. Images are from Born2SPD.
T.Hawk and O.Ken data have been obtained from the game, but are in %, just like Yoga Book Hyper. I had gathered those before Dammit and Pasky released their luas and scripts. The sections for the other characters are in actual (in-game) damage.
I had taken an average, taking much more than 10 numbers, when appropriate. I have taken the most common values otherwise. For instance, 4 is the most common damage value for shotos’ weak attacks, so it made no sense to try and get an average which would certainly be very close to 4 anyway. I have also rounded down any averaging. Finally, those damage values will be lower against Honda, Dictator, Sagat, etc., and even lower against Zangief, as they have more damage reduction.
Some stuff is wrong, and some stuff in incomplete. For instance, several moves do different damage or stun values in different instants, the YBH does not have such data. The YBH also has mostly no data for old characters.
Emulated ST, under good emulators, is fine: clearly better than any POS console port Capcom has released. Papercut used the training mode script, which is bugged and changes things such as recovery.
Man, the rabbithole goes too deep. Also, I found that there’s a discrepency between the flash kick information between wiki and theory fighter. O. and N. Guile have the same hitboxes for the flash kick in the wiki, but not in the theory fighter.
The hitboxes are the same. However, dammit’s lua script has 1-2 frames delay in drawing the hitboxes.
b2spd later found a way to slow down the emulator to 25% so that he got no delay. So some moves that have rapid changing hitboxes will be out of sync with the animation on the theory fighter (it was done the as soon as we learned about the dammit script).