Ah, sorry about the “we” thing. That’s just how I talk, didn’t mean to imply that all of us as the “Guile collective” are saying that.
bazooka knee after a shoto jump in Fierce kick to cr medium kick hadouken combo.
they shit bricks when thier cr mk gets stuffed by the crappy bazooka knee and eat a sonic boom on top of it when they try to mash srk.
Bazooka knee after cr.lk, cr.lp thrown in to mix things up, especially if youve alreayd pinned them down with crlk crlp crmp sonic boom combos.
eh?
Like block the j.hk, then bazooka knee over the c.mk?
Seeing this was news to me. This is from a post in the main area in regards to an interview of fuudo.
Let’s face it… guile’s auto-correct flashkick sucks. This might be helpful in landing that flashkick that gets you out of gief/rufus/akuma crossup madness. Definately plan on fiddling with this once I get back to Japan.
Sobat
hey guys! latley i have been doing forward sobats with sonic boom like motions to overlap the charge. i was wondering if others have done this and is it worth practicing or is this old news:sweat: its seems to be quite functional, but i wanted more opinions. thanks:lovin:
looks like they rumoured that guiles 2nd ultra is the sonic hurricane on eventhubs, which is probably the most likely additional one. I’d be interested in Guiles combo potential in SSF4.
Please explain.
I think he means that he’s doing Sobat kicks by holding charging db and sliding to df and hitting mk, preserving his down charge. I didn’t know you could do that. I guess maybe you could use it as a gimmick of something. Whiff sobat kick right in front of them and then throw out a FK. It definitely won’t combo.
Are you sure that works? I think any downward input results in a c. mk.
my bad:sweat: i meant doing a forward sobat with the same motion as if you were overlapping the charge for a sonic boom. charge :db: then :r::db: mk. i thought you would have your charge just that much faster to zone more efficiently.
Anti airs and teching
Hi i was just wondering what the best options are for anti-airs when you don’t have a down charge? In a situation when a shoto does a block string ending in c.mk xx fireball and i reversal sb and the shoto jumps over it. The range feels a bit awkward as it’s doesn’t seem near enough to clean c.hp and st.hp gets stuffed all together.
C.Hp is best when opponent is directly over you isn’t it? Don’t use st.mp much but after reading the boards maybe i’ll start using it a bit more. What’s a good range to use st.mk? Been lookin for videos on anti-airs but can’t seem to find any :sad:. Or are all anti-airs character dependant? ie st.fierce owns gen’s jump pretty hard. Tips for preventing crossups on wake up would also be nice, I can occasionally get away with focus->dash but that’s unreliable and sometimes end up dashing into the opponent for some punishment.
On another note what is “late” teching and is it possible online with the latency? I get thrown out of a lot of c.lk startups when i play with guile for some reason. As in i can see my leg sticking out and still get thrown
Through some serious analysis tonight, I figured out that Guile’s jab boom starts in 8 frames (hits on the 9th, except that frame you’re already recovering since projectile moves have no active frames) and recovers in 12. This is the only way for it’s hit stun to provide you with +10 frames.
I used a lot of other characters data to confirm my findings ( Recovery Frames = -1 * (Frame Advantage - Hit Stun + (Active Frames - 1)) )…
Here’s something interesting though, if you apply the above equation to any character’s baseline projectiles (I’m still working on non-knockdown EX projectiles given that they hit twice which fiddles with how the hit stun actually applies to your frame advantage), the suggested “total” frames of every projectile is off by exactly 9 frames.
Guile’s Jab Boom, 8 frame start up 12 frame recovery: listed total frames of 29 (29 - 20) – Applies to all
Ken’s hadouken, 13 frame start up 25 frame recovery: listed total frames of 47 (47 - 38)
Rose’s Fierce Fireball, 28 frame start up, 16 frame recovery: listed total frames of 53 (53 - 44) – Applies to all
Ryu’s hadouken, 12 frame start up, 24 frame recovery: total frames of 45 (45 - 36)
Sagat’s FP TS, 10 frame start up, 20 frame recovery: total frames 39 (39 - 30) – Applies to all
Sakura Hadouken, 14 frame start up 26 frame recovery: total frames 49 (49 - 40) – Applies to all
Gouken: 16 frame start up, 16 frame recovery: total frames 41, (41 - 32) – Applies to all
- Applies to all referencing that some characters’ fireballs have different recovery times resulting in different frame advantages, but I did test them all, and they are all off by 9 frames. Didn’t feel like writing each of them down.
And so on…
Is there something I missed along the way, or is that seriously as fkn weird as I think it is?
You can find any projectile’s actual animation time by subtracting 9 from the listed total frames.
Against shotos you can cr.hp almost every jump-in. Don’t go out of your way to use s.mp, as far as I can tell it’s a weaker cr.hp that’s a bit faster but has lower priority. You want to hit cr.hp so it hits them really high up. It has better priority than you might think.
One of the important things to playing Guile is to keep at a range where any jump-ins can be anti-aired. There is a very small range range at which shoto j.hk stuffs cr.hp, but you can get out of the situation by walking backwards or backdashing. And then you should always try to have charge whenever possible to have late EX Flash Kick, which beats basically everything but Sagat’s j.mp (which loses to cr.hp cleanly).
Some people suggest using far s.mk as an anti-air, but it’s pretty fickle and I’ve never really tried. If you can get a trade from far s.hp it trades in your favor and you can put pressure on with Sonic Boom. You can also try to use early jump forwards j.hk as an anti-air, which is really good versus Gief. I dunno, it might work at the range you’re having problems with.
If you only have a back charge, Sonic Boom is a pretty decent anti-air itself.
If someone is always doing cr.mk xx hadouken and then jumping in, air throw his ass. Don’t keep throwing sonic booms if it’s not working out for you.
Actually, that’s one of the reasons that the shoto matchup is hard. I don’t think you really can AA clean after a reversal boom in response to c.mk xx fireball. Especially if the shotos are utilizing their j.hp, which seems to have some great priority vs. guile’s normal AA’s.
Changing subject… I have to really apologize to whoever it was that mentioned that nj.hp was great vs. gief. I didn’t pay attention to you then. For this, I am sorry. But that weird jumping spinning punch messes gief up in all KINDS of ways. It looks like it’s hitbox was almost made to be anti-lariat. One of the things I was doing was standing point blank to a knocked down gief, then I’d take a couple steps back… about half a backdash. Once he woke up, I’d neutral jump and hit hp on the way down. If he tried anything, it was the perfect range to hit nj.hp > s.hp > s.hp. Freakin beautiful.
Fiddling with it even more, it seems to be great in a few other matchups. I noticed it worked great vs. rufus as well. I’ve also been using j.lp a lot more lately. If I make a bad jump where I know I’ll be hopping into a shoryu, I’ll just stick it out there early. Many good ryu’s hit their shoryus as deep as possible, and the hitbox for guile’s j.lp make that hard to do.
you have no idea how many giefs I take out with nj.fp lol
I personally like to boom, dash up and nj.fp and sweep or fierce.
But I abused it too much and they figured that s.rh beats it. :looney:
Heh, really? Well, I’d rather eat a s.hk from gief than a lairat for shizzle.
does the nj.fp stuff rufus ex messiah?
There is something you missed. It’s something I call hit slowdown. We use this same thing in God of War 3. I’m planning on making a video showing the timing differences between the PS3/360 version. I have a theory that the reason why people always mess up their combos when going between the 2 consoles is because the 360 version has less hit slowdown on it’s attacks than the PS3/PC version. The “jump test” didn’t show any timing differences between the 2, but it’s really just the hit slowdown that’s different.
Hit slowdown occurs when your attack makes contact with your opponent, either blocked or connected. It actually slows down the animation of both characters by a small amount of frames. The different strength attacks cause varying amounts of hit slowdown. It’s one of the things that makes fierce attacks “stick” more than weak attacks, etc. Normally with this hit slowdown, BOTH characters are slowed down so there’s no discrepancy you notice with all the frame datas. But with projectiles, only the opponent will experience the hit slowdown since the person who threw the projectile didn’t actually make physical contact to their opponent, the projectile did.
In my preliminary tests I discovered hit slowdown on all projectiles to be approximately 8-9 frames(this is what you found). This is that discrepancy you’re seeing with the numbers. The frame data is in fact correct, the frame data doesn’t take into account hit slowdown.
As soon as I get GOW3 out the door, I’m going to have time to sit down and explain all this in detail. Don’t worry the frame data is correct.
EDIT
if anyone wants to play around and see this, here’s two videos I showed Edma. Edma is actually the one who brought this projectile discrepancy to my attention
http://www.seangilley.com/sf4/sonicboom03.avi
http://www.seangilley.com/sf4/sonicboom04.avi
If you load these two videos into Quicktime and advance through them frame-by-frame, right after the sonic boom connects, you will see the opponent “shake” for a few frames. It’s about 8-9 frames…this is where the hit slowdown occurs. After this “shake” there’s 18(blocked) and 22(hit) frames of block/hitstun before guile goes into the 4 pre-jump frames. If you look at sonic boom frame data, it shows guile as having 18/22 frames of block/hit stun.
Thanks for the info gilley, i knew the ps3 version was slower, but i didnt know why. This messes up my timing so much.
I just hope I have time to research this completely, make a video about it, and get it to capcom to show them there’s an issue. I really hope they know about the issue and plan on fixing it for SSF4. I would hate to go through this again with that game.