Try it against Geffa - it wrecks him if he’s jumping in from a distance and not using mk.
Yeah, I’ve actually been doing a lot of setups with it trying to use it effectively. Lp.sb, wait a sec, follow. If they jump over it, perfect GHK range, the height and angle is generally superior to any jump-in I’ve seen so far and if it’s a counter-hit you’re looking at 200+ damage anti-air easy.
The issue being, I don’t suppose many people would jump in at you from the distance it’d be best to use it at, but that’s not necessarily true. Some rush-down players hop over projectiles pretty frequently to close the distance, and the GHK works nicely for -that- range. The “I could tick you with my foot on a j.rh” range.
Had the guy pinned in the corner at the right distance and just kinda whipped booms at him, if he jumped in GHK > EX.fk was the answer and it worked really well for me.
There’s definite flaws with it but, if you’re at the right range and have the meter, it’s either a deep ex.fk for 180-200 or a GHK > EX.fk 190-300…
I don’t think it’s actually possible to out-prioritize any shoto jump in with df.hk. I’ve got it to work on boxer alright, gief is a given as mentioned, blankas jumps seem a bit fast to use effectively, etc. etc. Very situational but ya, it has it’s uses and feels great when you hit with it, even with no EX flash.
ya, it feels so good when it hits :wgrin:
Another very situational use I have is against that rarest of breeds: The Scaredy Cat. The guy that jumps back if you look like you’re going to poke him on wake-up. I’ve had some of these cats jump straight into df.hk. Another one is Geffa’s lariat - at the correct range, you can peg him in the hands clean (as far as I know - I’ve only done this at the arcade).
I set the cpu to just continuously j.rh at me over and over. Definitely possible to land a counter-hit on Ryu’s j.rh, it’s rare, you usually just stuff it.
And really, the only range that it doesn’t land clean or trade is like, when they’re -right- on top of you, to which c.fp would be a better choice.
I’m legit starting to think people don’t give the move as much credit as it deserves. Even if you weren’t charging when you use it, you can always get enough to fk them before they hit the ground. The only issue with that is occasionally they’re too far away. But that only happens like, you’re using it max possible distance. ~20% of your health for jumping at someone is pretty brutal. The only non-super/ultra that can compare afaik is sagat’s double f.rh rocking out ~280dmg / 400stun.
On counter-hit it’s 218dmg / 350 stun. I need a lot more practice with it, but I find that the best time to throw it out is just a little bit after they’re descending from the arc of their jump. Can’t throw it at the peak, it’ll whiff, but definitely up near it. The measure I was using was the attack data box in training mode: right at the top of the box, when they’re passing through that area, seemed to hit pretty clean every time.
It’s really not even that dangerous to throw out, not anymore dangerous than c.fp if you’ve got it down. They both occasionally trade but the difference is around 120 dmg and 150 stun between the two.
It also has pretty deceptively long range and height, you can hit people pretty damn high up there.
All I’d really ask for with the move is to widen the active frame area. 11 startup, 4 active, 15 recovery, and I think it’d be wayyy more solid.
Im confused
why is FADC to ultra possible and FADC to flash kick isnt
fk & sb are considered normal moves. they don’t hold a charge as long as an Ultra/Super 26 frames. if they did, you would see walking sb’s standing fk all over the place esp. with all the new shortcuts out there now :df: :df:
mm…short cuts? There aren’t shortcuts in SF4. It’s just people’s misconceptions about what they’re actually inputting; some people say that you can hit :df::df::p: to execute a shoryuken, this is false. Shoryuken requires 3 inputs. Any down, any forward, any down or forward.
2 :df:'s won’t do it, but 3 will.
Dude, I don’t meant to sound elitist or anything, but there are most definitely short cuts in SF4 and you can most definitely do a shoryuken by hitting df twice + punch BECAUSE of those short cuts. Go into training mode right now and turn on the option to see your inputs to see what I’m talking about.
Ok, you do the same. Try for hours. Tap :df::df::p: as many times as you want, make sure those inputs -and only those inputs- are what comes out. It will never, ever occur.
In fact, it’s actually surprisingly difficult to hit just :df: and not have any other direction come out, which is why people assumed that it was occurring, because OTHER directions come out when you do it.
Check out youtube, try to find a -single- video of that occurring. Ironically, the first you find is one blatantly showing you that it’s impossible.
You can’t make a move that requires 3 inputs to magically require 2 inputs for directions.
[media=youtube]8LspixgCe2E[/media]
You could try for days, and never, ever, even once will only 2 :df:'s and punch get you a shoryuken. I have tried it myself already to absolutely confirm it. What people “feel” and what “actually happens” are two different things. It was just a myth that started because they did not test it out in training mode, they just assumed that’s what happened because it happens in matches.
I began to become suspicious when I was using Fei Long and it kept happening to me when I went to crouch block, so the one time I actually wanted to do it I tap :db::db::k: and poof, no flame kick. There was no way I timed it wrong, in fact, I timed it too correctly, because doing ^ that doesn’t result in a flame kick, it results in whatever kick you choose to hit.
Better yet: I rock a keyboard, doing that is actually incredibly easy as I can simultaneously hit down and forward. I’ll post the video of me spamming it and only getting punches on -every- single :df::df::p: as I just did.
This might help
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=200716&highlight=input
even better:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=186916
If these are not shortcuts, what would u call them?
They don’t discredit anything I said. People have tried to argue that actual shortcuts exist that reduce the number of inputs required to perform a move.
The :d::r::p: shoryuken is impossible. I welcome you to sit in training mode with a keyboard and try to get that to come out. I can’t even offer an explanation for that because I couldn’t replicate it after about a solid minute and a half of attempting it.
[media=youtube]jCjBD3xFsDQ[/media]
^ This is particularly what I’m talking about. Taken about 20 minutes ago by me in training mode. Never once did :df::df::p: result in a shoryuken. Two directional inputs can’t produce that move. Actually, scratch that, if you continue reading that nice thread that you linked, they explain how that occurs.
“:df::df: is not a valid motion for an SRK and you should never see that sequence on it’s own in the input display after an SRK. But yes, the input data display doesn’t always reflect what the engine “sees”. It doesn’t display negative edged button presses for example. eg. Hold :p:, do :qcf: and release . The last punch doesn’t get displayed even though a hadouken is performed. Also, button presses separated by only a few frames are shown ambiguously. eg. mp ~ lp is shown as mp followed by mp + lp, but a lp ~ 3p is shown as lp followed mp + hp. In the second case, the engine still sees the 3P as being simultaneous.”
What was shown in that video on that thread isn’t anything new and only reinforces my statement: the SF4 engine has a large window to perform a move; the SF4 engine interprets :d::r::df: as: any :d:, any :r:, any :d: or :r:. Any combination of any of those will result in a shoryuken.
But that is not a shortcut for it. A shortcut would be performing the move in less moves than required. The :d::r::p: he performed was in such a way that the engine didn’t print the third motion.
Kich, I don’t even know why we’re arguing.
-
Seth from Capcom, while he was doing commentary for Evo, bought up multiple times how the shortcut system in SF4 messes up a lot of players. Ono himself has mentioned in interviews or articles that the shortcut system was implemented to help new players.
-
How do you know what’s going on in the SF4 engine? You’re saying that the person from the other thread inputted the SRK motion in some way that the input display didn’t show it, but how do you KNOW? At least those of us who say there are short cut motions have the developers supporting our claim.
-
THIS IS THE GUILE FORUM. Fuck it! Who cares if a SRK has shortcut inputs or not? Stop arguing about that and let’s get back on track.
That is actually a really good question. Maybe the game gives more leeway when it comes to the Ultra motion? I know both cr.hk FADC boom and cr.hk FADC FK isn’t possible (or I’ve never done it), but why can we hit cr.hk, FADC Ultra when it requires a db charge?
It’s because the forward motion of the charge is registered as the forward “down forward” for the next part of the move, the game gives you a certain time frame to perform the ultra once you begin. Same reason you can cancel a sonic boom into your super. The downback charge is only required to be able to begin the motion of the move and have it come out.
Once you have the charge for it, the window of inputting it is 26 frames or about half a second. In that time you can dash and buffer the rest of the input during the dash.
– And you’re correct, we shouldn’t argue about that on this thread, but it’s terrible to spread misinformation like that to people and have them actually believe it. I mean, I just showed you a video proving it’s impossible, but yeah, they totally exist. They’re there just not really, y’know?
ok so ultras and supers have more buffer
does that mean that even if its little, FB and SB are bufferable as well.
Lets say I would like to do a mix up and charge 3 seconds , stand up faking a throw attemp (1 second) and then release the flash kick
is that possible?
a whiff throw is 24 frames.
the buffer for sb & fk is what ever frames it takes to do
:l: :r: :l: + :p:
my guess is 5 frames. (edit)
Just to finish this:
:df::d::df:+:p: is an SRK “short-cut” designed to make crouching SRKs easier.
The system was built not to reduce the number of inputs, but to make it easier to perform moves in traditionally tricky situations. e.g., the “new” 360 “short-cut” is a half-circle, then any up, and punch. This makes walking spins a lot easier.
There is a short-cut system; it is broken for many reasons; you’re arguing with the wrong folk.
That’s more of an input leniency system. You’re not making the move come out in any less inputs you’re just using different inputs. If there’s a trail that goes for 3 miles, and you find an alternate trail that’s 3 miles long but an easier walk, you didn’t find a short-cut. Get where I’m coming from?
(Drop the topic.)
shortcut motions in SF4…
DP = df,d,df+p
Yoga Flame = db, d, df, f+p
SPD = f, df, d, db, b, ub+p
FAB = f,df,d,db,b,ub,b,db,d,df,f+p
Raging Demon = jab, jab, f+short+fierce or jab, jab, b+short+fierce