Wow… Ultra 2 and meter gain nerf is like “Whoa…”. Feels like playing a shitty older version of Guile before supers, meter, and ultras were even invented. My 80/20 Guile/DeeJay usage just switched to 50/50; good luck out there, fellow flat tops. 
With all the different ways the new school characters have around charge moves and projectiles, maybe we need to get with the times and consider the possibility that Guile might need a new move (never thought I’d say that… lol) after all these years if they plan at keeping him at these specs moving forward.
I don’t know about a new move, but I would love a new taunt where he combs his hair.
Ultra 2, when you first get it, does 208 damage
seems obviously better to just c.mp or s.hp/ghk > fk at that point
he’s not as bad as i expected if i’m honest. still builds meter pretty fast as long as you don’t sit in the corner throwing booms.
the only other thing that hurts my play style is the air throw nerf. udk doesn’t feel any quicker to me.
i feel like yun and yang are really going to walk all over him. haven’t played a decent one yet. being playing yun a bit myself. he’s like rufus with ridiculously easy links. i was missing them at first because they are that slow and easy lol.
Jump Fierch/RH to s. fierce to ex fk does 364
Lvl 3 focus to SH 352
RH fk fadc to u2 is 250
Owned every Yun I played online last night. Waiting for a good one. Evil Ryu gave me some problems. The thing is, although the characters aren’t developed yet, my biggest problems is with people throwing out stuff randomly. It doesn’t appear that Yun can just throw out moves randomly against Guile. I think as long as Guile’s defense and spacing is down, Yun may have a hard time getting in. But I havne’t played a Yun who abuses his divekicks well. For me Yun doesn’t feel like Rufus though, and seems much easier to contain. He also dies way quicker than Rufus. I honestly don’t think I’m going to have many issues with him, probably due to my play style. Plus my area is a big Rufus area, so I’m kind of use to playing these types of matchups.
Evil Ryu however gave me a feel problems. He feels a lot like fighting Akuma. However he kept getting me with his overhead stomp kick. That’s going to become a problem. The ex version is unseeable. He can also randomly toss out tatsus which is also hard to see. I think E.Ryu totally nullifies Guile’s midrange zoning game. Random tatsus are a little too good at that range. E. Ryu may have an slight advantage here.
I only played one Yang, but this matchup seems hard. Harder than Yun at least.
same here. whilst trying to learn yun, and even whilst playing a couple of matches as guile, i lost to a couple of day one scrubs just mashing ultras/uppercuts.
i also stopped blocking on yun’s ultra one and evil ryu’s ultra two.:sad:
it’s to nullify the whole fadc sonic hurricane stuff that some guile’s build their whole game around…yet he never needed it to win in the first place. my play style barely feels any different as i never relied on ultras to win me a match, and i assume people who play in a similar fashion to me will feel the same. at the same time, i can see how this has upset top tournament players who relied on that comeback factor.
i honestly don’t feel like that much has changed. yes, it’s harder to win. technically he may be worse than vanilla, but seeing as this is sf4 nerf edition, he still ranks better than vanilla imo. maybe i’ve improved, but in vanilla, i kinda felt like it was impossible to win some match ups. i don’t get that feeling here yet (with the exception of dhalsim). maybe i will when the yang’s start getting good though.
theorising matches, i’m guessing sagat and akuma are back to almost vanilla levels again. ryu is probably about the same as super, and i assume ken is harder than before. i just have a funny feeling that makoto and hakan may give guile problems that he didn’t have with them before. maybe this is where he starts slipping down the tiers.
Now that AE is finally out. I think it’s time for me to share my experiences on matchups against the twins since I hate them both as I’ve been playing AE for some time now. Hope it helps y’all to kill more of them.
Yang is definitely harder than Yun as he has a crossup mk which you can’t c.hp on reaction. This crossup mk must be blocked as a crossup when Guile is in the corner but Yang will land in front of him. You can’t even jump back airthrow it if his timing is on point. He is definitely a harder matchup for Guile than Yun and has as much bullshit as Yun does.
There is no point in using U2 when you just got the first level cos there is no stun and meter gained unless you are trying to catch a FB with it. G.hk, EX FK works better and does better dmg. But then again, catching a FB with it is pretty hard in AE due to the startup and SH travel speed. Hk.FK trade into SH is one of the viable setups for SH now. Don’t bother FADCing FK to SH unless it can finish the opponent or leave him with little hp.
Do not BLOCK a jump-in from Yun/Yang at all if possible, unless you get knockdowned. Blocking a divekick = SRK? Throw? C.lk? Command Grab?
AA all jump-ins they use to try to get in.
Do not backdash away from divekicks on wakeup if the Yun is good cos he can just walk forward and combo Guile’s recovery. He doesn’t need to OS in order to punish Guile’s backdash.
You can follow up and backfist the twins if they use their palm move to neutralise a jab boom.
SB is actually a good AA for their divekicks.
Jb and punish if you predice an EX lunge from slightly more than half screen.
Yang’s roll into SRK move or his anti-fb move can be punished. You can hit/throw him when he rolls. Think of it like Boxer’s EX dash punch.
C.mp, SB, sweep is a good punish when they whiff/you blocked their light SRK in front of you. Better than using backfist cos it doesn’t hurt now.
UDK, c.mp > SB, backfist works on both the twins.
Do not punish with c.lk, c.lp, s.lp, s.hp on the twins. S.lp won’t hit them even if they get hit while they’re standing up. Top-tiers have natural hitbox advantage.
Do not FA against Yun in footsie range or you’ll eat target combo into palm.
It is possible to use s.hp to counterhit Yun’s shoulder move if you’re good.
If they like to nj outside s.hk range, just SH fast and it’ll hit them even if they didn’t press any buttons.
This is the advice I can share from a few months of AE play against the twins. And don’t be surprised that Fei has become a bad matchup. In fact, majority of his matchups now imo are at a disadvantage for him.
Ryu is actually around B-tier imo as he lost his full screen jump hk tatsu, apart from his coward copter. His c.mk is also slightly slower and you can feel the difference if you try and use him. It’s easier to punish it too. Ken is a lot better than Ryu against the majority of the cast. Akuma is actually nerfed from Vanilla and nerfed again in AE and I feel he’s a lot easier to fight in AE compared to Vanilla. As for Sagat, I think he’s the only character that has the right balance now compared to previous versions where he was either overpowered or over-nerfed. Sagat is like Vanilla Guile now in a sense that you can’t scrub out a win with him.
Don’t have the game yet. What anti-air normals are best against dive kicks (between c.HP, s.HP, s.MP, etc.)?
Also thanks for all the info to everyone whose been providing.
All of Guile’s AA normals can be used to AA divekicks, even GHK, s.lp, c.mp and s.mk. It depends on the timing and angle on the divekicks. Far s.hp is one of the most consistent as it’ll at least trade once you get the distance right and hits them clean at most times. But you can’t use it up close if they divekick high. GHK is not recommended against Yun though, but it does quite well against Yang if you get it right. Backfist can be used for far range just like in the Rufus matchup where they nj and divekick over a jab boom at full screen.
Thanks.
So here’s the air throw overview for AE:
Vega = range 1.20, startup is 3 frames.
El Fuerte = range 1.15, startup is 3 frames.
Hakan = range 1.10, startup is 2 frames.
Chun and Ibuki = range 1.10, startup is 3 frames.
***Guile = range 1.07, startup is 4 frames.
Cammy = range 1.00, startup is 5 frames.
Fuck you, Capcom. There’s no logic for this bullshit.
Also, here’s the link to Guile’s AE frame data:
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Guile
can i just say…i love the balrog headbutt nerf:D
The part that pisses me off the most about the Guile nerfs is that in the Developer’s Blog, they basically just listed HALF of the Guile nerfs. And then had the nerve to say that only Guile’s damage has been changed, and it does not affect the way he plays AT ALL. When in reality, airthrow and SH have been altered to the point where they no longer have the same effectiveness from before, same goes for the sonic boom.
bunch of fucking liars.
I could live with the damage nerfs TBH. It’s all the other shit that they did I cannot stand (and the fact that they tried to downplay the nerfs).
Small additional nerf i found in the frame data: far flash kick stun reduced from 200 to 100. It was 100 in vanilla, 200 in super.
yo WTF do i do against those twins? i am clueless here. Their dive kicks beat c.HP and Flash kick. I am scratching my head here. I lost like 10 matches on a row against those two. Also playing Guile is feels like i am back to the vanilla days. I am working soo hard the entire match to gain some lead and then boom. One bad guess and its over. I am down in the life lead again. Tips please. Also is it me or oni is a very hard matchup for guile too? Please help, Guile is the only character i am using since SF 2 and i don’t want to learn a new character from scratch.
Wait as late as possible to flash kick, use light kick fk, late ex fk is you can spare the meter (80 more damage)
Ugh… why. Why! Why did I have to make two threads in this forum! I have some updating to do… =(
If anyone wants to give me some damage updates for the combo thread, it would be greatly appreciated. Just send me a pm.
I cant download DLC for AE (country restriction >.<), but I never thought it would be that bad for Guile:eek:.
As soon as the Disc Version comes out, I will join you guys in these uphill battles, since Guile is just too awesome to leave behind (P.S. Oni is badass too :D)
Sat with Guile a bit when I got AE. Still plays relatively the same, air throw/damage nerfs hurt but if you have a good zoning game, he’s not that much different but I do agree that he feels much more Vanilla-like than Super, and most of my good matchups are a lot harder.