Following that logic, if Guile was only a ‘regular good’ character in Super when played at high levels, how is he going to shape up in AE with the balance changes to him? Less than ‘regular good’? Better? The same?
I already said I don’t think his nerfs are big problems outside of u2 and that upside down kick is a nice buff (although I guess that has some issues sometimes too). I thought Guile was underrated in Vanilla and he’s still better than that. Can’t imagine that he won’t be among the huge 90% of this game that can compete for top placings in tournaments. I’m no Guile player, though.
guile is still good. i think he’s mid at the moment.
believe it or not im actually pretty worried about the new gief match. ive noticed that at some distances when you block ex green hand you cannot punish with throw. this is a big deal because its like one of the 2 ways guile gets space in this match. (backbreaker and back throw). so not being able to punsih with back throw, and having a shittier air throw could make it easier for gief to corner guile. also new jab spd is super scary.
if early indications mean anything, he is going to be right down the middle of the pack.
so i’m hearing nerfed range, nerfed damage, on top of the nerfed frames on the airthrow. i hope its not true.
they could have given him a better cross up lk and oldschool j.hk, if they were going to go that far in nerfing his signature moves.
^ Longer airthrow startup is true. You can definitely feel it even if it’s just 1 frame’s difference.
Well crap there goes my default for nearly every time I block EX-Greenhand and wasn’t really expecting it. Does this mean if you try the throw and it’s at this special distance you basically just whiff a throw right infront of Gief and potentially eat a lp.spd to punish that?
Coming up next in SSF4 AE Console Edition: Zangief gets the ability to SPD a sonic boom projectile.
I think AE Guile is Upper-Mid Tier still capable of placing in Majors. I understand a lot of you guys are upset because Guile got buffed in SSF4 than nerfed in AE, but if you look at it from Vanilla to AE he improved overall. He did get damage nerf on his Back Fist/Flash Kick/U2 but a lot of characters did too. In my opinion, faster Sonic Boom charge time was what made Guile solid. His damage output was what made him OP.
Yeah, Guile’s bad match-ups definitely became harder. I haven’t played Arturo’s Dhalsim yet, but Seth pretty much has his way with Guile now that he has more stamina, beats Guile in the guessing game on knockdown or neutral plus the fact that Guile deals less damage and it’s way harder to air throw him now. One thing I noticed is that EX Flashkick beats Seth’s Shoryuken now if it didn’t already. And if you guys thought C.Viper or Abel were bad in Super, it’s worse in AE.
If there is one thing I find amusing it’s when players think that in the Guile/Viper match, you can ZONE Viper. The best thing to do is to react to her movements and counteract. It was hard to play the zoning game before but now that air throw is 4 frame start-up, you have no tools to react to low trajectory burning kicks after you throw a boom. You have to block and play the guessing game if Viper has EX meter. Outside of playing high level C.Viper matches, I haven’t really done any new experimenting with the match. It’s the same concept, except you die even faster now due to counter-hit during boom animation, and you don’t gain meter fast enough to get her off of you and stall the clock for probably 5 more seconds.
Also, Abel bosses Guile around now FREE. There is nothing to really say more about the match. Abel is going to play the same way he’s been playing since SF4 as well as Guile is. The difference now is that you take less damage in to him and you have to watch out for guess jumps because you’re gonna take more damage, again during boom animation. I played Yipes’ Abel in a long set. In Super, we went 10-9 him. In AE he beat me 10-4. He really told me that he does not care that he gets hit by Guile and just rushes in and does brave stuff. He keeps jumping in from awkward ranges to get a random step-kick set-up. It doesn’t matter if I block the step kick or get hit, Guile doesn’t have a 3 frame jab to keep him from Tornado Throwing you. If you try to jump, st. Firece to fat combo. If you sit there, Tornado Throw. If you try to back dash, wait, then step kick to full combo. Basically all of his options beats yours on your defense. Now I’m not saying that it’s an impossible match, but I’m definitely going with Honda for tourney 2/3 Abel. Yipes has really stepped it up with Abel (Japan level or Yipes level lol) and he really limits my options to nothing sometimes. Half of the time I’m not pressing buttons, like i’m watching a combo/reset video.
All in all, we know the match. Guile has not gained new tools to deal with this grueling match. Being able to say that you out-guessed ABEL on defense only means that you out-guessed the player behind the character. It’s too hard to keep a bulldog Abel out. Guile DOES NOT out-footsie Abel, focus dash beats all of Guile’s pokes and he get’s in free. To be honest, only low to mid level players gets owned by Guile’s simplistic style. AE greatly favors rush down/aggressive characters and meter management played a big role in assisting Guile for that. Like I said before, characters are going to get more chances to get that ONE knockdown that they need to change the game around and we know that Guile main weakness in when he’s on his back. If you don’t see it or haven’t experienced it yet, then you just aren’t playing the right players that can exploit Guile. More stuff coming soon plus videos.
EDIT} And yes, the damage output was what made him great, but now the developers gave him a counter-hit weakness. People gonna soon realize how bad that is. I know I have already.
Damage output + Few solid offensive capabilities = Not OP
He’s a defensive/zoning character by design, meaning he has to earn all the damage he lands on an opponent. THAT equaled a balanced character. Taking away a bit of damage from rush down characters that can easily capitalize off small mistakes is a different thing entirely from how Guile is affected by it.
dammit, I should stop reading about guile in AE, makes me want to quit the game and wait for mk9
Hang in there Monsterer. Guile is still overall stronger than Vanilla Guile in relation to other characters and doesn’t have to deal with things like Sagat’s billion damage juggle into Ultra from Vanilla. Guile is far from weak, they just sapped his power in questionable ways. Honestly, now when you beat someone at the arcade, they can’t complain about your OP character turtling like a scrub etc etc etc. You beat them after taking 8 nerfs.
As much as the counter-hit boom thing sucks, it’s making me a bit smarter about when i should and shouldn’t throw booms. Before it was like whatever but now I probably eat fewer predicted jump-ins because I’m more aware of the consequences.
I would say Guile is arguably worse off than he was in vanilla due to the fact that there are way more characters that give him a hard time.
Yeaaa I guess it’s still arguable… course I don’t play at a high level so it could be an entirely different story. It’s still weird to think that Vanilla Guile builds meter FAST compared to AE… but he gains Guile High Kick juggle, Sonic Hurricane, and a much stronger Flash Explosion. But yea… SSF4:Dive Kick Edition -_-
Most of the things you listed are tools used to punish extremely bad plays. I’d say Guile is more of a utility character not based on pure damage but an absolute defense based on reaction and intuition.
The problem here is that your intuition will be slightly diminished due to the fact that the risk of punishment has been reduced. Because the damage for his b&b has been nerfed, the opponent might be more inclined to pop an uppercut or random tatsu. Or they might be bolder in walking up because of backfist damage. Also, Guile will have less meter when they finally do get in which means you won’t have the threat of a fk fadc to deter them from pressing the offensive.
Im sure all these factors lead up to certain matchups being rather nightmarish (wtf are you supposed to do against sim other than offensive guessing?!). Guile players: You’ll probably need a counter character up your sleeve if you want to continue playing him.
It’s hilarious that you have to play a perfect game against some characters. One minute you’re doing your usual solid zoning game, keeping the opponent out for 50 seconds and then one slip up you’re getting styled on by cross-up whoring-command throwing Viper, Abel, Seth, Fuerte and Akuma until you die. All the while looking proficient in what they are doing to you. My point is that the human element is 99.9 percent going to keep anyone from playing a perfect defensive game. Guile doesn’t have enough BS and bonuses to compete with most of the cast, that’s why he needed the damage for the most part.
Let’s be realistic. Guile doesn’t have comeback factor. You NEED a lead with Guile to have the match in your favor. In AE, Guile is a Tit-for-Tat character. If you are down 50% and need to make a comeback to win, what miracle BS are you going to pull out to make a comeback? No high damaging combos to ultra, Flash Explosion is nearly impossible to land in high level play, Sonic Hurricane is not ultra worthy damage. If you waste your ultra in an attempt for a comeback GG’s for you. Someone in this thread give me an answer and please do not use Kyotojin vs KSK as evidence for Guile beating Abel. KSK’s Abel sucks compared to Yipes in that match.
Dagger_G I watched those matches with F.Champ and I could see your concern with the Dhalsim match. I played him also and I could say that I didn’t do much better than you did. He beat me 5-1. You literally have to guess on offense and ultras are unreliable to use in that match more so now that S.Hurricane has more start-up. Japs has this match at 7-3 now it’s probably worse. And I also commend you for being honest with yourself and telling the forum to pick up a counter character to play competitively, something I didn’t do. Guile is just to easy to beat. Too many weaknesses and his style is simple and not solid enough to be competitive anymore. Like, the character hasn’t really changed for people to be like “Oh he has something new I gotta watch out for”. Same match-up since SF4, i’m pretty sure people dissecting Guile down to pretty much nothing already.
Machi’s Guile was hella solid vs Justin at NSB17 and Justin still pulled out the “BS” and beat him. You think Machi’s gonna beat him in AE? I’m talking high level tourney play here not playing in your friend’s backyard.
EDIT} I’ll be browsing the other forums until I find something new with Guile, so you guys don’t hear me bashing him anymore.
So the proof is in the pudding gents. From Guile mains who’ve stuck with him since SFIV to the Guile pros who rep him. AE Guile is just not going to cut it any more if you’re playing to win. I’m sure he’ll be a fun alternative character to use non seriously if you’re just playing matches for the sake of playing matches but with such a large cast of more capable characters, I can’t honestly see any Guile “mains” anymore.
Also, Dropping SFIV Guile into AE would be a bad thing. Even if he had U2, he needs the other buffs he got in Super. Bazooka knee throw is great, Guile High Kick has a reason to be used and of course the shorter SB charge make a world of difference. But now you’re dropping a considerably weaker Super Guile into AE with more scary match ups than before. It just boggles my mind how Capcom did that. Now if it was reversed, and AE Guile was in Super and Super Guile was in AE, we would all be ecstatic right now with the list of changes. Buffed air throw?! Yes! Buffed spinning back knuckle?! Yes! No more CH on SB recovery?! YESS! They weakened UDK? Who gives a f***?
… wow, I liked living in that world for just a second…
Switching gears to the T.Hawk match, I mirror the sentiment that he’s much scarier than Gief. His condor spire (or whatever his new horizontal move is called) mirrors Gief’s green hand. His EX version and probably his further way versions that hit close to last frame are all probably safe. So then you’re stuck guessing if you should stay on the ground or attempt to get away. Which is the lesser of two evils here? Stay blocking in case of his srk? Jump away in case of his spd or if he stays blocking? FK in case he try’s anything? It’s really a paper, rock, scissors deal and if you do one too much, he’ll expect it. And the trade off? He has more chances of doing much higher damage. And when he jumps, it’s already been said but again, he has options that make Guile scared to do stuff. The chance of blocking a Condor Dive and punishing with Ultra is so nice but if you stay too long, he might just empty jump and grab you. And you have to try and get around that huge ass dude eventually because with any grappler, you want to stay away from them. So yes, Hawk is scarier than Gief imo because of his range of options as well as how he’s not often mained and thusly, little chance to get the match up knowledge. It can easily go 5-5, but again, imo.
I just lost another ranked matched against a Hawk, was excpecting a condor so I sateyd blocking and ate a SPD. ANd what if I had jumped backwards? he probably would have done and ex srk to catch me in air. f.u.c.k.
luckily i have a few lol. lets say my guile is as high as my ability goes (lets call my guile 10/10 for the sake of argument…it obviously is nowhere near 10/10), i have a few characters that i play that are around the 7-8/10 mark.
in fact, why don’t we discuss who are good characters to compliment guile as a secondary?
these are the other characters i use more than the rest: balrog, bison, adon, vega, rose, ken, ryu, sakura, juri, deejay
now i’m guessing it’s probably not worth focussing on rose, ryu and juri because two of them got nerfed and one of them just sucks…
i’m looking at the dhalsim match more than anything as the place i’m going to use a counter. i actually really like vega in this match. don’t know why…but he always seems to get me results. my adon is getting pretty good too (and will work great vs other guile’s). any suggestions from the guys who’ve played a.e (without saying “just pick yun/yang” lol)??
I still think I will be using Guile in AE as a complement to my Blanka. Despite cries of horrible nerfs Blanka has hardly changed and I feel that his good matchups will remain so. He does way better than Guile in Viper and Fuerte matches, does fine against shotos (including Akuma), and does pretty decent against Super characters that seem to give Guile trouble (Adon, Guy). Abel is a problem for both characters though!
It sucks that Guile is going to have a tougher time. That said, as a non-national-level-tournament player, nothing is going to stop me from playing him, simply because I enjoy the character. I imagine you all do too, or you probably wouldn’t be playing him.
I hope someone (War, Die, Dagger, Josh Wong even) in the national-level tournament scene reps him hard and gets some high-profile win with the Family Man in AE. God knows you guys have all our support.
I’m already seconding Bison with fair results and of course I’m picking up Makoto. In AE, I’m going with Makoto as main, Yang, Guile and Bison as seconds, and I want to see who else shows up. Vega is awesome and I might play as him more and I maybe, MAYBE, will pick up Dee Jay too. Gouken was always fun and so is Adon so I may give them a spin as well to see where I stand with them. I really like play as Sakura too if only for the easy combos into ultra. Who needs FADC when you’ve got a luncher? Man, just thinking of that makes me even madder at they way Guile is going to be. Balrog, Headbutt > Ultra1. Sakura, EX tatsu > Ultra, Bison, jumping mp x 2 > Ultra, Chun, 101 ways > Ultra2