Guile in Super Street Fighter IV (arcade version)

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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Quoted from a giant rant I went on in my local scene’s Facebook group (basically our SRK):

WTF AT ALL THESE GUILE NERFS MAN. DAMAGE NERFS?! METER NERFS?!

Cause Guile did so much damage before :frowning:

Guile without meter means he’s going to be even FREER on wake up to mix up / rushdown characters like Viper, Abel, and Sakura. Meter management makes or break some matches, like vs. Sim or Rose, and now that he builds less meter, those match ups are going to be even worse for him.

Doesn’t make sense. If you look at Guile’s frame data, he does less damage than average compared to everyone else. All his good pokes like cr.mk and st.fierce do bad damage and he can’t even special cancel them like other characters (Ryu can cancel his best poke, cr.mk, into a hadouken; chun can cancel a lot of her pokes too).

The FK nerfs make no sense too. It’s already hard to land those since you need a down charge and now they do no damage too?! Also, if you get hit by a raw U2, you deserve the damage cause it means your predictable/slow poke is getting punished, you jumped into it, or you did something super unsafe and are getting punished for it.

Guile is already super hard to win with. On paper, he’s top tier if you play him perfect. Now that he does less damage, you have to play him EVEN MORE perfect to win.

QQ /rant
**
Another post in response to one of my friends saying “the meter nerf isn’t that bad:”**

The meter nerf is pretty huge tbh. Just having two bars is a threatens a FK on wake up and makes people think twice about mixing me up. Now that it takes longer for me to build meter, people can rush me down more without fear of getting FK’ed.

Also, in projectile battles, whoever has more meter is often times more important than who has more health. Guile was already losing to Rose in the meter department and meter is the only thing keeping Guile in the game vs. Sim. Now that he builds less meter, those matches are a lot harder.
**
Last response to my friends saying that he actually needed the nerfs:**

Take a look at all the results of every past major SSF4 tournament. See any Guile players placing top 8 consistently? Nope. Want to know why? Cause he already had to play perfect in Super to win. He’s a good character in theory, but in… practice, he’s incredibly difficult to win with because one wrong guess zoning wise means you’re getting mixed up to death. Rose has U2 and a great back dash to stop the momentum, Sim has a 3 frame back light kick, teleport, and U1 to help stop the momentum / push himself out of bad spots.

If no Guile-only player could win consistently with him in Super where you had to play perfect with him to win, the chances of any Guile main killing it in AE is going to be even slimmer cause now you have to play even more perfect.

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The meter nerf might not be too bad… If I understand it right what it means is that for every 26 sonic booms you throw, you’ll have one less square of meter than before. Not necessarily such a big deal.

The biggest issue is going to be the sonic hurricane startup. If it’s more than like 1 or 2 frames worse, than I think Guile becomes fairly shitty.

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Dammit Capcom, if you give Guile a “comb his hair” taunt I will forgive you for nerfing U2/FK/Meter gain

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Regarding Sim match-up; his AE changes are up next week so we’ll have to wait and see. Who knows, maybe his meter gain/damage will also be nerfed too (meaning the match-up might not get worse…)

I am getting increasingly worried with U2 nerf tho…I forgot it was also nerfed in the frame department as well as damage. I don’t really see the justification for this nerf nor the FK for that matter (the other ones I can see some sort of justification, but I disagree completely with the nerfing; folks just gotta learn to block!)

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the question should be ‘see any players PLAYING guile in touraments?’ period. considering there’s only like 5 (4 when you don’t count daigo), i don’t think you can look at the stats and say guile’s aren’t reaching high places consistently. they are.

lamerboi: joint 9th at evo, top 32 super norcal regionals (according to eventhubs…didn’t see that one myself).

dieminion: top 8 seasons beatings, 1st place guard crush, 1st place uk tournament i forget the name of, consistently top 4 at guard crush (hardly what i’d call a scrubby bi weekly tournament). only player who’s been more consistent at guard crush is arturo. recently beat justin wong (people would argue that’s an achievement in itself).

daigo: 1st place canada cup.

dagger g: made it out of pools at evo. also finished only just outside top 8 at socal regionals.

warahk: top 25 evo, top 8 norcal regionals.

and these are just the results i took 5 mins to look up, or witnessed myself via stream. there’s probably numerous other stats i’ve missed out, don’t know about or forgotten. also, bear in mind that making it out of pools at evo was like winning a regular tournament in itself.

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Warahk was also top 8 again, forgot what it was but he was top 8 in two tournaments back to back. I also wouldn’t really put Daigo in the Guile list–he won his last game as Guile, he didn’t win the tournament as Guile. (Yes, I get that he “literally” won the tournament playing Guile, but he didn’t make it there with Guile alone)

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i agree about the daigo part. but someone would’ve said i forgot that if i didn’t mention it. plus it was hardly like he beat some scrub in that final.

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But because he did not use guile the whole way through, it does not support your argument.

He has a point in the flash kick nerf. It was already a bad reversal, no need to hurt it even more. Playing Guile has made my blocking so much better than it was before. The guy in the rant has a couple of good points though, for the most parts guile’s pokes are good but not great. Both Chun-li and Vega have better pokes; but not only do they have better pokes, they also have combos from those pokes.

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That’s the most utterly retarded logic I’ve heard. No one uses U1 because it’s complete and total ass. Thinking that more people will use U1 over U2 due to U2 being nerfed a bit is a stupid idea.

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you believe capcom to shun stupid ideas?

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Guile’s U1 startup = 1+6
Balrog’s U1 startup (Punch/Kick version) = 1+10/1+9

What I don’t understand is whenever the opponent is an inch off of the floor Balrog’s U1 hits 9 times out of 10. However Guile’s U1 (which is faster on paper) whiffs or gets blocked 10 times out of 10 in the same situation. Either the frame data lies or the hit box takes forever to get above Guile (and usually by that time he loses invincibility). U1 looks good on paper but sucks in actual application. It’s a shame.

252

Sooo looking at the changes. Dhalsim hasn’t change much really. Nerf the super’s damage, and hold Back Cr. mp less recovery time but faster start up.

Doesn’t really help at all with the match up.

Bison match up is even easier now. What I fear though is Adon’s changes. Lot of buffs all around.

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Q: You said it’s easier to hit Ryu out of his Crouching Medium Kick with Guile’s Reverse Spin Kick now. Was the hitbox for this move strengthened as well?
A: No, not really.

So basically UDK will still whiff against low attacks (slides, crouch kicks) in addition to a damage nerf. How’s that helpful Capcom?
I heard most tournaments won’t be adopting SSF4:AE so Tourney Guile players shouldn’t be too affected.

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WINBACK:

The reason why Balrog has easier time comboing into his ultra after headbutt is because his ultra has juggling properties from the first punch, while Guile Ultra 1 juggling property starts from the third hit of his first flash kick, thats why you can combo sonic hurricane from any version of super (including HK) while Ultra 1 can be comboed only from MK and LK version of super, even though its faster.

Try it in training mode. Use Lk super to ultra 1, and you will notice in the first flash kick, only one hit will register.

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dhalsim got combo buffs and damage nerfs.

we are now officially fucked in this match. time to learn bison vs sim in depth lol.

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Time to learn how to counter sim’s c.mp with UDK -__-… on REACTION

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cammy is the best counter to sim, shes ez as fuck to play too lol

she wont body him as bad without tk cannon strike though

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I’m gonna be hopping aboard that Gouken train that’s leaving Thursday. I’m gonna be the conductor…tickets please.

/train

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Do you stop at Fei Long station? :stuck_out_tongue:

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yea she does shit all over 'sim lol. i’m not bad with cammy and i can do all her sako combo b.s pretty consistently. but seeing as i play on dpad, the one thing that always stopped me using her a lot more was not being able to spam tkcs. now that’s not there anymore, i’m intrigued to see if i like how she plays in a.e.

LOL. i can’t play gouken to save my life.

there’s so many trains leaving the station right now. i’m tempted by adon and ken in particular. adon is so much fun to use considering he’s pretty basic (and he’s such an annoying character to play against). he may have lost that quick get up…but he got an anti air, loads more hit stun on cr.mp…and just generally seems like he’s going to be even better.

ken is one to watch in a.e. i personally think that he’s one of the most underrated higher tier characters in ssf4 (as stupid as that sounds). i’d argue he’s better than ryu. plus his air tatsu’s, frame traps and kara throw setups make him more fun to use than ryu anyways imo. by the looks of things his arsenal is only going to improve.

i must admit i totally underestimated how much halving ex meter is going to hurt guile. i really hope it got lost in translation or something and they only cut it by a third or some shit. i could live with him gaining 3 bars in the time it takes to gain 4 in super. but 2 bars in that time? that’s actually a really big nerf on it’s own. then you add slower startup on sonic hurricane and damage nerfs…sighs.

to be completely honest, if they don’t hurry the fuck up and release this as dlc, i’m going to be playing marvel by the time this shit comes out anyways.:stuck_out_tongue: