when super was about to come out I had high expectations on Djay, people said “He is the Black version of guile” well he sucked compared to guile in Super. After reading the tweaks, seems like guile got 4-5 nerfs while d-jay got 10 boost that could actually make him interesting now. I will still main guile but I am now siriously considering learning D-jay as backup. What do you guys think about jamaica?
Personally I still like Ultra 1 for it’s raw power that really helps you make a comeback if it really comes down to it. The damage was improved a lot since Vanilla and in particular it makes Super -> U1 even beefier. It’s not as valid in competitive play but U1 isn’t that bad really. In Vanilla half the problem was how little damage it did and on characters like Sagat and Gief with their massive health. Super -> U1 in Vanilla was also really weak since the last kick didn’t do as much damage.
Well it kinda depends on the match-up too. Some characters like Blanka and Ibuki with sliding attacks are kinda susceptible to U1 if you bait one. Some are easier to focus crumple than others too and whenever that happens I’m glad I have U1 instead of U2. You can even screw up the dash input and still land U1 after you recover from the FA delay.
I think the damage nerfs suck. Seems like Capcom understands that Guile defensive character and made him get stunned as easy as a 12 year old school girl. With that reasoning it means he is often not attacking so when he does punish a mistake, it should HURT. If they’re going to nerf damage at least give Guile more comboability or better mixups. Maybe make UDK an overhead! Change cr lp to cr mp a 2 frame link? It comes out so slow anyhow, I usually get thrown out of it, so I should get rewarded when it hits.
Like most in this forum, I played him in vanilla and that won’t change in AE. It can’t get any worse than vanilla (hopefully). haha
Its obvious these nerfs were done to make it so Guile is less of a monster in fireball wars. Now Sagat has a good chance against him again during fireball wars. Which considering they may not do anything at all to buff Sagat’s tiger knees (the official dev blog didn’t say anything like was rumored) he’ll at least need some tone downs from Guile to go toe to toe. Especially without far s.LK cancel Guile has better footsies than Sagat so Sagat needs the upperhand in the shot game to compete. That was basically the only way Sagat was able to compete with Guile in the SF2 games. His shots were just better than the booms. Without shots being better the odds are against Sagat.
Personally, I’m going to give DeeJay a try for a bit. His buffs make him sound pretty good, and I’ll have no qualms about switching to him if Guile ends up sucking.
With Guile… it’s just too hard to tell what’s going to happen without hard facts. The damage nerfs could be huge, or they could be negligible. The sonic boom meter nerf might be compensated for by meter gains in other places… or they might not. The ultra startup might be nerfed to the point that you can’t anti air with it or FADC ultra with it… or the change might be 1 frame in which case it wouldn’t matter so much.
So basically… we’ll just have to wait and see.
This game was so amazingly balanced, I just hope capcom doesn’t destroy a perfectly functioning machine in an effort to create “mo better balance”. The theme seems to make fights take longer, and more like scrappy fights where it’s not all over in a couple of moves. In that case, give Guile some more combos please.
There were times when I can mentally see the player on the other side getting that shock and momentarily losing control of their stick. Only to get another backhand landing on them just so they get shocked one more time.
Well, with slower sonic hurricane start up, I wont be able to score Close St.HP counter hit linked to ultra 2 anymore :(.
Exactly this. I don’t think these changes will hurt any true Guile players too badly. I and many others will still be whoopin’ a lot of impatient ass with him… so far it looks like his general playstyle hasn’t changed, and I’ll still be able to mix up a good rushdown & keepaway game as usual.
What’s really gonna be funny is the new excuses people will have after losing to a weaker Guile several months from now when this update arrives.
Great SSF4 changes. Gonna main Guile now.
I think the only thing I’m worried about is slower sonic hurricane. Before it was kind of a one-stop-shop for all things ultra. Even if it’s one frame slower, you won’t be able to punish green hands or HK/EX scissors among other things. I imagine it will just be on par with the startup of metsu, which will probably be just enough to make flashkick FADC hurricane impossible and make punishing fireballs just a little tighter.
The other changes are fair and I’m curious how UDK will work now. Two interesting things changed… the UDK hitbox and I’ve heard that the “reeling” hitboxes were changed a bit. What will this mean for crumple UDKs I wonder? Maybe it will be impossible to hit a s.hp after the UDK now post crumple? Maybe it will be possible to tag a backfist on the end of UDK > c.mp xx boom on EVERYONE now? Maybe it will mean you CAN’T tag it on anyone. Very interesting.
Overall, I’m most pissed that I’m going to have to edit like, EVERY SINGLE COMBO in the combo thread. Gay.
LOL
but yeah, slower sonic hurricane is not good. i almost never have a downback charge ready when ultra opportunities appear because of my play style, i rarely used ultra in vanilla. pretty much only after crumple or as a punish to a blocked ultra/super
ill probably use flaccid hurricane in AE. i cant react to shit with pretzel, it takes to long.
@Slinkun : I wouldn’t say that it would be Metsu slow but Tiger Cannon slow, about 8-9 frames.
Seeing the AE changes, I’m actually okay with it. Wouldn’t mind the entire cast be mid tier. Damage nerfs are meh, not worry about it. Betting that backfist is going to be 100, flash kick 100/120/140, and U2 around 380-400ish.
As for the FK FADC U2, it will still be possible except certain characters that have that weird hitboxes when they fall down e.g. Dhalsim.
Hey everyone. I had an interview 2 days ago with the guys over at Neo Empire which is based in London, England. It focuses on my thoughts and opinions on Guile in SSF4 AE. I’ll post a link when it’s put up!
EDIT} I would just converse with you guys, but I don’t want to repeat everything over again, sorry
I’m more worried about the SB meter charge nerf than the U2 nerf. It will suck not being able to punish some things on block with it, but I know you will still be able to FK > FADC > U2. My guess is they’re going to bring U2 closer to the other characters projectile ultras. On average, they have around 10-11 frames startup which means you’ll still be able to FK > FADC > U2 if they lower the startup frames to this range. I guarantee you’ll still be able to do c.jab > c.jab > c.strong > FK > FADC > U2. Your opponent is way up in the air when you do the U2 in this combo. This probably wont work on Dhalsim at all in AE unfortunately, unless they fix the hitbox on his hit reaction.
How much damage is it going to do in AE? Looking at some numbers…
Dan U2 = 251/368
Dhalsim U1 = 205/300
Gouken U2 = 174/255(338/495)
Ryu U1 = 254/369
Sagat U2 = 264/384
Sakura U2 = 224/329
Guile U2 - 288/420
Guile’s U2 does a pretty good chunk of damage compared to other character’s projectile ultras. Since it’s a charge move it might need to do a little more damage than other characters. I’m going to guess it’s going to do around the same damage as Sagat’s U2, so around 260/380 damage would be a good estimate.
The reason why the SB charge nerf is a bigger cause for concern is because this affects more of Guile’s game IMHO. Having less meter for EX’s, FADC’s, and super could hurt him big time. I’m kind of worried about the Dhalsim matchup now since it’s really important to have meter for EX SB in that fight. And if Dhalsim’s numbers stay the same, he’s going to be building meter 2x a fast for his own EX YF. We’ll have to wait till next week to see how Capcom is nerfing Dhalsim though.
yeah, if dhalsim doesn’t receive nerfs the sim guile match up will be retarded.
fk fadc u2 is the least useful way to use u2. it just loses too much damage. its no metsu hadouken.
that last hit of sonic hurricane has a base damage of 150, and it doesnt connect after fk. this makes teh base damage of sonic hurricane 270 before scaling. if the damage reduction is anywhere other than the last hit in AE the juggle damage will be hilarious.
fk u2 is 376 now. with fk and hurricane dmg nerfs it could potentially be like 300.
i hate ultras that require db charge though, so i doubt ill be using u1
Ehhh. The whole shift with U2 was probably because they realized no one actually was using U1 despite the damage on it. I can’t blame them for lowering the utility on U2 as a reaction to this instead of raising the utility of U1. I still wish they did something different with U1… I swear it feels like it becomes active on frame 7, then like, skips some active frames or something then becomes re-active at 10 or SOMETHI NG… it never feels right when it gets blocked sometimes.
Agree with the Dhalsim matchup though. That’s the only matchup IMO where meter management is super important. I’m not too super worried about meter in any other matchups honestly. shrug
on the fk>fadc>u2… what if the last hit of u2 hits for AE?, it is the hardest fadc ultra in the game.IMO, people who can pull it should be rewarded.
i wouldn’t worry too much dhalsim yet because he’s surely going to be nerfed nearly as much as guile. everyone harps on about guile, bison or chun being o.p. but damn, i fucking hate dhalsim so much on this game. i’m not the kinda person to counter pick, EXCEPT vs dhalsim lol. i try bison, then if he’s getting me nowhere i run like a little girl to my ass, scrubby as hell abel. if all else fails, i pull a lamerboi.
even frickin daigo looks free vs 'sim.
Problem with U1 is that it was useless in Vanilla and that certainly didn’t change with the transition to Super. When I played Guile with Vanilla, I just assumed he didn’t have an ultra unless random wacky circumstances happened. worse part about it is that it has shitty properties and they were not addressed. No idea why they nerfed the flash kick; I play like it exists only as a combo ender.
In all honesty, they only thing they could do to make Guile’s U1 better is add the Hokuto no Ken fatal K.O. music whenever you land. That ultra is like the most involved taunt ever.