Guile Game Theory vs New SSF4 Characters Matchups

[wongerhere]

**Theory & Video Analysis Folks!
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Since there’s no SSF4 Guile thread yet, I thought it would be interesting to see, talk & guess how well Guile would fair against what’s shown on these videos.
I’m really scared & excited by the recent SSF4 videos. I hope we get videos of the normal cast soon or details about their changes.

(2/10/10) sorry for the delay, but here’s some more videos of Guile in action:

(2/04/10)****
http://gameinformer.com/games/super_street_fighter_iv/b/ps3/archive/2010/02/04/hands-on-ssfiv.aspx( thx syngin) ****VS Ryu, and various matchups
****Analysis in thread below

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(1/20/10)
[media=youtube]PKk822S3mO8[/media] VS Guy (excuse the noob but any footage is good footage)

[media=youtube]XVZMsQ6iV0Y[/media] VS E.Honda

(1/09/10)
[media=youtube]PznD_vhBAXI&feature=related[/media] VS Seth
-Sonic hurricane Completed
-Seth’s new Ultra

(1/08/10)
http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/701750/super-street-fighter-fight-club-videos-watch-seth-killian-take-on-justin-wong.html VS GUY (pt 1 Fight Club 0:00 - 3:30) VS SETH (10:30)

**** (1/08/10)
[media=youtube]fhL2WLEM27E[/media]
**** VS Dictator

**** Highlights & opinions:

• Sonic Hurricane (1:50)
• Dictator’s new Ultra Psycho Punisher is a grab type move like El Fuerte’s Ultra & does not require a charge
• EX FK does not do more damage or have more range.
  (I recreated 1:20 several times to confirm distance & damage taken. wasn’t hard since Guile didn’t move, & Dict was easy to line up)
• overhead still the same speed (1:23)****(recreated & matches video speed )
  **** - Crossups still beat FK (1:33 & 1:39)
• cr.HK is still the same speed (1:49) (recreated & matches video speed)

****(10/27/09)
**** [media=youtube]_rXgEyAkCQE[/media]

[media=youtube]tcIXTuP-4To&feature=related[/media]

[media=youtube]F8aZDg8mRXE#[/media]

My theory/ notes:

• looks like everyone’s getting a normal & an EX juggle.
• Juri’s reversal > swap might have been better if it was part of a new Focus followup
• Her air kick juggle better not be safe on block. (looks like she can spam it like cammy’s air cannon spike)
• fireball speeds have been tweeked
• DJ’s MGPunch seems to have little range & the startup makes it a weak anti-air
• T. Hawk’s throw range is insane (seth even said its gonna be nerfed, lol)
• Hawk’s air condor looks fairly punishable on block
• Hawk’s got a horizontal DP that’s looks like a fair anti-air

-DJ will probably be similar to a Guile mirror match. Depending on how good his MGP on block, he looks to have more options for close pressure then Guile.
block string combo example: sb, cr.lk, cr.lk, cr.mp, double rolling sobat, sb
Don’t see any problems with mixups/crossovers

-T.Hawk looks like he might be a Gief with DP instead of the Lariet which should Guile an advantage (6:4) Problem could be how much damage Hawk does, his insane command throw range, & weither his condor moves are punishable or not.
****knockdown mixup example: overhead/cr.lp, 360/ dp >FADC>360
air condor spam/crossups > 360

****-Junri scared me every time I see a video of her. She’s got some fast, long range normals, what looks like a fireball mixup game like gouken, and launchers that seem to combo from 2/3 of the screen away.
Looks like Guile has another uphill battle due to her mind games, strong normals, & lots of long range specials.
(see videos for crazy combos)

What do you guys think?
**

[mr.sloppy2nds]

Guile flash kick priority + juggle ultra + 60dmg SB + j.mk crossover = Top Tier

I sure hope they give the dude something to be competetive. I have a lot of fun playing Guile.

DJ looks like he’s gonna be a lot of fun too.

[Slinkun]

Assuming no buffs are given to guile, (just for theory’s sake here), I think T-hawk will be much easier than gief depending on a few things. Namely the invincibility of his dp and the priority of his condor dive. If guile can recover from a boom and hit his dive with a s.hp clean, bam, easy match. One of the things that makes gief so hard is guile’s inability to keep up boom pressure midrange because of EX greenhand and giefs jumping options. If Hawk’s dp has good range and invincibility, expect problems.

I can forsee DJ and juri raping guile with their current builds, DJ moreso than juri. If you think about it, DJ had good recovery on his projectile due to the charge requirement. I imagine it will be worse than guile’s but still recover faster than a ryu hado… so essentially, your looking at a more optioned, ultra comboing, advancing with c.hk… guile. Depending how good his upkicks are, I would hate go up against someone who can advance on me while charging their AA.

[GuruPrimo]

Assuming no buffs are given to guile, (just for theory’s sake here), I think T-hawk will be much easier than gief depending on a few things. Namely the invincibility of his dp and the priority of his condor dive. If guile can recover from a boom and hit his dive with a s.hp clean, bam, easy match. One of the things that makes gief so hard is guile’s inability to keep up boom pressure midrange because of EX greenhand and giefs jumping options. If Hawk’s dp has good range and invincibility, expect problems.

Also the possibility of air-throwing some of T.Hawk’s air mobility options. At fight club I remember thinking to myself,“I am going to looove air-throwing condor spire.”

[gilley]

I predict I’m going to be airthrowing many Thawks out of their condor dive :tup:

[Slinkun]

Eh, I don’t know. I’m think if it’s like the SF2 version, and he does it vs. a max range boom, he’ll be too low to the ground to air throw, making s.hp the only real option.

True theory fighter at work.

[Nemesys_Syndrome]

If it’s airborne (even by a micro inch off the ground), Guile can airthrow it. :tup:

[Hoppa]

judging from the damage of T-Hawks Ultra, one mistake and you are dead :(… people who are adept at using gramplers will have no troubles using THawk.

Regardless of the matchups Deejay will be easy for many of us to pick quickly as he as a charge character. Use projectile is as good as guiles in terms of recovery but hard to compare at this stage… he will defintely be my third main along with Boxer and a guile.

Deejay will probably have an advantage over guile as he has a better offensive arsenal

[Kich]

judging from the damage of T-Hawks Ultra, one mistake and you are dead :(… people who are adept at using gramplers will have no troubles using THawk.

Regardless of the matchups Deejay will be easy for many of us to pick quickly as he as a charge character. Use projectile is as good as guiles in terms of recovery but hard to compare at this stage… he will defintely be my third main along with Boxer and a guile.

Deejay will probably have an advantage over guile as he has a better offensive arsenal

I don’t doubt that T.Hawk’s ultra does 600 damage flat. I estimate Juri’s health to be between 800 and 900, probably 850 much like Akuma. A 600 damage ultra looks like it does -a lot more- on characters like that.

So, realistically, his ultra isn’t any stronger than Raging Demon, Zangief’s 720, or Blanka’s ambiguous ultra.

[syngin]

Eh, I don’t know. I’m think if it’s like the SF2 version, and he does it vs. a max range boom, he’ll be too low to the ground to air throw, making s.hp the only real option.

True theory fighter at work.

I air-threw a Ryu out of tatsu on the way up the other day. Should be fine

[keldorn87]

Does Guile have a jump in corss over btw?

[Hoppa]

I don’t doubt that T.Hawk’s ultra does 600 damage flat. I estimate Juri’s health to be between 800 and 900, probably 850 much like Akuma. A 600 damage ultra looks like it does -a lot more- on characters like that.

So, realistically, his ultra isn’t any stronger than Raging Demon, Zangief’s 720, or Blanka’s ambiguous ultra.

fair call mate. that never occurred to me

[System_1]

Street Fighter II: The World Warrior, released in 1991, was the first true sequel to the original Street Fighter, following an unsuccessful attempt to brand the 1989 fighting action game Final Fight as a Street Fighter sequel, and an officially commissioned spin-off Human Killing Machine on the ZX Spectrum and other home computers.It was one of the earliest arcade games for Capcom’s CP System hardware and was designed by Akira Nishitani (Nin-Nin) and Akira Yasuda (Akiman), who were previously responsible for Final Fight and Forgotten Worlds. The release of the game had an unexpected impact on gaming and was the beginning of a massive phenomenon.

testking 640-822 l 70-680 test l 70-649 testking

[Warahk]

For the most part i think most of the new characters look really fucking hard to zone. Everyone flies around the screen MVC2 style throwing shit in different directions. SF4 is already a game not built for characters like guile and dhalsim. I think Super looks like a more exaggerated version of SF4.

Super Smash Fighter Brothers 4 imo.

[SonicFlash122]

I think Juri is going to be a problem. She seems like a very offensive oriented character with a WHOLE lot of options. From the looks of that video interview with Ono, it looks like she has a head stomp things similar to Chun, her cross up looks like it has good range, and she has a dive kick which always gives me problems when I play Guile. On top of that I think a lot of people are going to try and play her because she is so appealing. That’s probably going to be one of the first match ups all Guile players need to learn and get used to. I’m almost sure of it.

[SonicFlash122]

I don’t doubt that T.Hawk’s ultra does 600 damage flat. I estimate Juri’s health to be between 800 and 900, probably 850 much like Akuma. A 600 damage ultra looks like it does -a lot more- on characters like that.

So, realistically, his ultra isn’t any stronger than Raging Demon, Zangief’s 720, or Blanka’s ambiguous ultra.

I think they are nerfing all the Ultras in this game so they wont have as big of an impact. I might be wrong though but it’s just speculation. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Ultra damages you listed were pretty close to the actual thing though.

[syngin]

I think Juri is going to be a problem. She seems like a very offensive oriented character with a WHOLE lot of options. From the looks of that video interview with Ono, it looks like she has a head stomp things similar to Chun, her cross up looks like it has good range, and she has a dive kick which always gives me problems when I play Guile. On top of that I think a lot of people are going to try and play her because she is so appealing. That’s probably going to be one of the first match ups all Guile players need to learn and get used to. I’m almost sure of it.

I’m going to wait before making this call; from what I’ve seen, she may not have too many options for prying open a “snapping turtle” Guile. I think it’ll come down to her normals and whether or not she has a good high-low game.

[Hoppa]

@ Warahk - I hate to say it but you are probably right. even in SSF4, characters like Juri will pose a huge problem for Guile. Guile will have more hard match ups than some of us may think. Adon and Guy for mind could cause a few headaches.

[syngin]

@ Warahk - I hate to say it but you are probably right. even in SSF4, characters like Juri will pose a huge problem for Guile. Guile will have more hard match ups than some of us may think. Adon and Guy for mind could cause a few headaches.

Guy has always been problematic and there’s a good chance that Adon might be tricky; thus far I’m not too scared - three months from now I might be rage-posting in this sub-forum though

[Hoppa]

Guy has always been problematic and there’s a good chance that Adon might be tricky; thus far I’m not too scared - three months from now I might be rage-posting in this sub-forum though

hmmm, you’ll probably see more of us posting more negative and cynical stuff about guile in the next instalment :).

I find that using boxer is much easier to rush down opponents when they least expect it. Even then good guiles can fustrate me to the nth degree if they zone well enough. People complain about turtling Guiles and runaway akumas, but even then Guile gets fucked over once the chun li’s and the zangiefs get in