Ok, so I’ve seen a tutorial on back dash ultra. I can only do it with Chun-Li consistently. When I get it with Guile, I don’t know how the hell to do it again. Here’s what’s happening.
I do the motion correctly, every time. I follow the steps and all that stuff, skipping to the problem now. I get nothing when I back dash out of my focus. So if I do it any later, I get back hand, which is also no good. It seems like I just can’t find the timing for Guile’s back dash. Chun’s back dash is much faster and shorter that I am allowed to just press kicks pretty early and it will come out. With Guile, though, I can’t get it to flow the way it should work. How do I adjust myself further? I feel like if someone can give me a few pointers on these errors I could get it out more often.
Oh, yeah I found out why. Guile’s back dash just recovers longer than the other charge characters I’ve been using. So it’s much harder to time. I just find it funny many Guile players have told me it’s easier to do the back dash one than the forward one. But it’s always some type of newer Guile player that tells me this. I think because they got it a few times by mashing it out, they think they have it down, but can’t really do it 10 times in a row. Anyways, I just found out that it’s not as lenient on the timing as what I was used to, so I’ll just have to find it sometime in training.
MYK just posted on his twitter: Counter hit close st.hp to U2 confirmed for 486 damage. I remember this idea being tossed around back when Super first came out, but I don’t remember anyone ever saying they were able to pull it off (when I was testing it, I was never able to link them, though, I have some pretty bad execution tbh).
Just went into training mode and confirmed it. Took me 3 or 4 tries on pad, but if I can do it on pad (I’m a stick player), then anyone can do it lol. It’s weird, I can hit confirm close st.hp or st.hp into far st.hp, but I can’t hit confirm counter hit close st.hp to sweep, let alone counter hit close st.hp to U2. Gonna have to go into training mode and practice that one.
i confirmed this before launch. it’s not very useful because its a 1 frame ultra link and you need a back charge. no one techs guile unless hes butt hump close, because of his shitty throw range, so you usually need to walk forward to frame trap with fierce against better players.
All you have to do is go to the frame data page and look at guile’s “hit advantage” column and look at the numbers. Jab/short on counter hit is +1 so add 1 to the hit advantage column to see what will link. Strong/forward/fierce/roundhouse on counter hit is +3 so add 3 to the hit advantage column to see what will link. Also, you can add the “Active” frame numbers to the “hit advantage” numbers to see how much +on hit you will be for a super meaty attack. This is the method I used to figure out the combos for my guile vids. I have a list in my notebook that shows all these numbers, and which attacks can link after all these situations(meaty, counter hit, super meaty counter hit, etc.)
According to the wiki cl.fp is +4 on hit, so it’d be +7 on counter hit. Not sure how this works if U2 starts up in 8 frames (1+7 according to wiki). Far s.fp however, is +5 on hit, so +8 on counterhit, which would work. If cl.fp works and it’s a one frame link, would that not make counter hit far s.fp a 2 frame link into it?
Oh I read the initial combo wrong. I thought you were talking about far s.fierce > U2.
This is interesting, I guess I never realized this before.
Testing this out I find that close s.fierce(+4 on hit) > U2 works on counter hit but close b+HK(+4 on hit) > U2 does not. So I assume that close s.fierce causes +8 on counter hit, but this isn’t true because you can’t do close s.fierce > backfist on counter hit. This means the ultra freeze is doing something wierd here. Maybe the U2 is starting up 1 frame quicker in this situation similar to how Guile’s super can start up 1 frame quicker under certain conditions.
hrm…
PS. Yes, there are a lot of problems with the frame data on the wiki but about 90-95% of it is good. And all of Guile’s stuff is pretty much confirmed by me to be good. I’ve found all the numbers add up properly.
Extra hitstun from counterhit is always consistent. The close s.fierce on counterhit is +7adv(4+3) as evidence of close s.fierce > backfist not working at all on counterhit.
I believe there’s something with the super/ultra freeze screen that cause wierd things to happen. Guile, Fuerte, Cammy can all make their supers activate 1 frame quicker under certain conditions. Some reversal 2f ultras can punish certain moves that are -1 on block. Then there’s the whole unblockable ultras that we had in SF4 that was patched out. I’ve also discovered Guile safe jumps that work on an opposing Guile’s LK super(3f) but doesn’t work on something like Ryu’s DP(also 3f). So sometimes the freeze screen causes the super to come out slower.
I think these are all related to some gameplay system bug that no one understands yet.
Just out of curiosity, Gilley have you landed Far S.FP into U2 off counter hit? I tried it for about an hour and couldn’t for the life of me hit it, yet I could hit CH close s.fp into u2 at least 25-30% of the time. Maybe the pushback from far s.fp made it hit a frame later than it should have?
u2 combos off close fierce ch even though its only +7.
u2 does not combo off far fierce ch even though its +8.
my theory THEN and NOW was/is that sonic hurricane travels outward upon activation, and thus takes longer to reach the opponent when linked off far fierce.
I think what you say is right cos I have this thinking about Akuma’s sweep. It feels like Akuma needs some time to fully extend his leg to hit you if you are at max range. But if you were nearer to him, the sweep seems to hit you faster.
I think the frame data tells you the earliest frame which the attack frame would be active and how long it’ll last for the whole duration. But it doesn’t tell you for e.g Guile’s far s.mp/c.hp attack. These attacks goes into 2 or 3 kinds of hitboxes when it’s active. Frame data would not tell you how long it stays at position 1 and how many frames from startup would it need to go into the 2nd position.
SH does indeed hit opponent faster if they are nearer than further away. It needs some time to travel and I think far s.hp wouldn’t be able to link into it cos of this reason.
Instead of trying it at s.hp max range, maybe you guys can try it on bigger characters at the nearest distance where hp is far instead of close s.hp. It might shorten the frames taken for SH to travel and hit them since bigger characters can be hit by double s.hp which means their hitbox is wider and nearer thus reducing the frames required by SH to travel.
