Agree with this usage - even non-meaty on block, Guile is only at -1, so given sufficient advantage, I like this normal for pressure on wake-up.
Same, I’ve been getting a lot of mileage off that simple mix up. Additionally, if you are playing a character with a reversal, they will likely start to reversal to try to escape, which adds another layer to the mind game and opens them up to some nice CC punishes
I’ve also started to use it after a blocked st mp. You are +3, so you can then walk forward and throw or walk forward and UDK
So I was playing against a Gief earlier and after a KD I went for a meaty UDK at which time the Gief decided to wake up with CA (this was really dumb of me, I hadn’t been watching his meter and if he had blocked and then done CA I’d have been fucked) but the UDK beat out his CA. Obviously UDK beats throws, but for some reason I thought his CA had some sort of invincibility. Anway I found it kind of interesting
That’s straight-up weird as he supposedly has full invulnerability from 1-3. That’ll need to be investigated for sure.
Yeah, no. I couldn’t get this to work in the lab: fk, f.dash, s.hp is at least -3 (punished with Ryu s.lp after block). Isn’t Ken’s lp.srk only lower-body invuln.?
So, further to what I was saying above, after a normal fk, f.dash s.hp is not a good option. On KDBR you’re fully open (recovery frames) and on KDR block, you’re at -4.
If, however, you land an ex.fk (ground or close to it - fk’ing jumping opponents changes the timing (fuck you, woshige)), f.dash s.hp will be meaty enough to link into itself (nod to @TerribleMatt ). Unfortunately, KDBR will wreck you. Like I said, I haven’t found a universally safe pressure option yet. I’ll keep tinkering.
f.mk has some interesting utility on wake-up as does the previously discussed udk. I really like s.mp. A lot.
I never said it was a safe meaty on block as it’s quite obvious any -4 move is punishable by every LP/LK with perfect timing since there’s not enough pushback. It’s a possible CC used to catch WU buttons that should be balanced with other meaty options so that you’re not exploitable
I personally have been using st mp and UDK as my main meaty buttons. UDK for the reasons mentioned above, and st mp because it is really a great tool: you can frame trap with it (against characters with 3f jabs you can go st mp, cr mp, FK or st mp, cr lp, SB and against characters with 4 frame jabs you can go st mp, st hp to try for a crush counter or maybe go st mp, cr mk, OH), on CH it combos into cr mp, FK (requires good charge buffering, but is still reliable in a match) and you can use it for tick throws (which again sets up the throw/UDK mix up because you can follow it with UDK instead of throw sometimes)
The statement “I never said it was a safe meaty on block” contradicts your earlier statement of “Pretty sure FK, dash, s.HP is a designed meaty against KDR” - clearly, s.hp is a bad option unless you have a read. And it’s not clean punishable on block “by every LP/LK with perfect timing” as Guile has 4f lights - at worst you can gamble on a trade.
Also, you can’t hit s.hp meaty and have it be -4. It’s only -4 on normal hit or block. i.e., not meaty.
If you’re going to post tech. that you aren’t sure about, phrase it as a question (or include a disclaimer) so that others can use it as a discussion point rather than a hard strategy they can take out on the road.
Again, my agreement with this. UDK is UDK, but s.mp is ridiculous. I’ve been getting a small amount of gimmick value from it by using it as a whiff from about c.mk range too. Example sequence: c.mk, s.mp, b.hp - obviously not useful against a buttonsy opponent, but once they’ve eaten a CC hp or two, you can get away with murder. It’s a 20f whiff (same as c.mp) if that kind of thing interests you.
Edit: here’re the hitboxes for UDK and s.mp (first active frame)
UDK: http://watissf.dantarion.com/sf5/boxdox/#v1_3/A16-6HK-15
s.mp: http://watissf.dantarion.com/sf5/boxdox/#v1_3/A16-5MP-4
I think it’s worth noting that UDK has a terrible hurtbox if you consider a jump-in - which isn’t surprising, but the more you know etc.
While I’m thinking about hitbox data, it pays to note, I think, the hit and hurt boxes for s.lp. That stuff is pretty ridiculous: http://watissf.dantarion.com/sf5/boxdox/#v1_3/A16-5LP-3
That’s set to first active frame (4). Notice the range, hurtbox, and that s.lp is a mid-hit.
This is probably something that most people know by now, but it is something that I just found out a few days ago, so I’ll post it just in case I’m not the only one: for a while, after doing a CC St Hp, df Hk (3 Hk), FK, the FK wouldn’t connect cleanly unless I was in the corner, so I would only get 240 damage for this combo and it couldn’t be followed up with a CA due to the FK not connecting properly. So I found that if, after the CC, you walk forward slightly and then do the df HK, FK, the FK will connect cleanly every time (mid screen), giving you the full 264 damage and allowing you to follow up with CA
You really misunderstand the definition of meaty. Meaty is a term used to describe a move that is executed just as the opponent is waking up
Does this sequence have active frames as the opponent is waking up? Yes. Everything else you just spewed is nothing more than a slanted interpretation of what I’ve said. You really must have some mental issues to fabricate meaning that was never intended. I suggest you seek therapy.
Wrong. Go check your sources before coming back here and muddying the waters.
Edit: That was, perhaps a little short and not useful to others:
Meaty (according to Prima - reproduced without permission)
Hitting meaty means intentionally timing a strike so you actually connect with later frames in the attack’s active period.
Whatever the case may be, I’m not convinced St Hp is really what you should be using for meaty pressure. I tried to make it work, but I just feel like he has much better options. The only time I’ll use it these days is if I discover that my opponent absolutely loves to mash on WU, in which case I’ll CC him until he stops (or dies)
I think it’s best used as a punishment rather than a pressure tool, for sure. b.hp > s.hp for meaty pressure IMO.
He said it was -2 on a dash in after a flash kick ender (which means a combo like cr.mp and not just raw flash kick). The thing I’m wondering is depending on the flash kick strength you use, the opponent falls nearer/further away from you. 1 training room boxes for mk and hk, 2 for lk and ex. Does the distance even slightly change the timing of the meaty at all? It seems like the dash covers both ranges but I’m just curious.
When they back roll I usually just go for a v skill. I was just wondering if Guile had anything that covered all options well.
Surprised nobody has noticed that the frame advantage of a FK seems to vary based on whether the opponent was jumping or not. I proved this with a quick test vs the dummy neutral jumping in training mode with recovery on and I can whiff a s.HP with ease.
Yeah, he’s wrong about the frame advantage after a dash. All of his fks work the same in terms of button strength assuming we’re talking about contact with a grounded opponent with the first (I think) active frame. i.e., you can run the same setup from lk.fk as you would with hk.fk. UNLESS:
[list]
[] you hit later than the first frame (or maybe “phase” - there are three distinct hit “phases” during fk active frames and I think that’s what has the impact on advantage)
[] your opponent is not grounded
[/list]
I’ll be putting some time in over the next few days to see if I can get some numbers on the variants.
The TLDR is that if you dash after an fk ender, you have to eyeball for a back-rise if you want to stay safe because trying to meaty KDR will leave you open for a punish after KDBR.
Yeah, this was mentioned earlier:
This will take some work to figure out 
Ugh, the more I dig into setups after fk, the more I become convinced we don’t get any.
Theory: fk is active for 12f so depending on which of those active frames connects, your advantage will change. This complexity multiplies when you factor in AA as now you’re dealing with your opponent’s height too.
That seems pretty air-tight to me and if it holds, you can only guarantee setups off grounded point-blank fk connects. Guile has a few normals active for 3f and booms are always an option, so eyeballing it isn’t the worst outcome.
Unfortunately, back-rise adds significant risk to Guile’s wake-up pressure situation.
I’m working on a list of basic meaty setups for some things (earlier I posted some ideas for VR KD pressure) and I’ll see what options I can dream up for standard fk combos.
Edit: I haven’t broken down any of the setup videos so if anyone’s got anything they’ve learnt from those, I’d like to hear it.
Well, unless someone has some alien technology to share, I can’t find anything you can use to meaty on KDR that won’t get you murdered if they back-rise
If you need to stay safe, your only option after an fk knock-down is a meaty boom. Gamble responsibly, kids.