His crouch walk is impractical. his c hp is a an 8 frame attack and is not as good as his USF4 counterpart. S MK appears to be more reliable. His C MK is meh, i wish it had the same range as Nash’s C MK.
With the slower fireball recovery, I feel that Guile has to play the ground game a lot more.
Looking for some good meaty setups for the UDK. I saw doyanbo using the f.HK, c.LP, FK meaty but I’m not great at timing it against Ken’s DP yet
For some reason, cr.LK works pretty well for me after a blocked sobat or UDK… It beats out a lot of punish attempts that would otherwise beat or trade with cr.LP. Is anyone else experiencing this?
Meaty or counter-hit UDK is +5 on hit (meaty could be +4 depending on timing), so c.lp (or s.lp) are your only special-cancelable options. If Ken is using mp, hp, or ex SRK, you can’t meaty that - he has invuln. from frame 1.
Cr Lk in general seems to be pretty solid: comes out fast and has good range (plus leaves you neutral). I use it all the time
Anyone got a handle on how VT activation mangles recovery? i.e., Guile can link c.mp after c.lp xx VT (or s.hp after CH c.lp xx VT), so he’s getting at least +2f of hit advantage for cancelling into VT.
Delete
Useful to know for setting up meaties:
Sorry if it’s already been said but if you dash in after a flash kick ender then st hp hits meaty enough that it’s -2 and therefore totally safe. Tested against Necalli’s 3f cr lp.
This st hp is then +8 on hit so you can link into another st hp then cr mpxxfk
I’ve noticed that st hp forces stand and st mp forces stand on counter hit. I was wondering why they did this and I realised it’s so that even at further ranges, cr mpxxfk will still usually connect because the later active frames hit the opponent’s standing hurtbox. Not that useful right now but interesting to know.
st.mp forces stand because it’s target combo with f.HP which whiffs crouch.
Quick bit of random tech: if your opponent blocks your VR and you get a read on them wanting to check you with a button, ex.fk will blow up that check. Pressing a button after a blocked VR is super tempting, so can be used to condition your opponent.
V-reversal knock-down notes:
KDR: +27f - after f.dash +9f
s.hp: active 7-9 - can whiff if you get everything buffered perfectly shrug
b.hp: active 8-10
sb: active on 10
KDBR: +32f - after f.dash +14f
s.hk: active 14-16
KD: +86f - after f.dash +68f
s.hp: leaves you at +41f, follow with f.dash, s.lp and you’re at +10f
b.hp is 3f slower than s.hp (30f total vs. 27f total) so the same sequence as above leaves you at +7f (s.mp is a good candidate at +7)
TLDR: you can apply meaty pressure after a VR knock-down.
Edit: Addendum:
booms cost 38f total and go active on 10f, so after a VR KD, you can boom for good pressure and if they don’t quick-rise, you’re at +48f still. That’s +12f and point blank after two forward dashes. If you delay the boom slightly, you can arrive at the same time as a meaty lp.boom.
Edit2: Incidentally, I don’t condone the use of “timing buttons” except as training wheels. I think they give too much away.
VesperArcade put together a list of various VT combos from various screen positions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYtG6TLuDxU"]https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZYtG6TLuDxU[/video]
Am I right in saying this is from hk flash kick?
Also whats the best thing to do against back roll wakeup?
You may know all of this, but just in case:
Take a look at the KD (knock-down), KDR (knock-down, normal recovery), and KDBR (knock-down, back recovery) columns on Gilley’s spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1976rt8B91PqVCeYJAmcnW1uwVJ0H03QJtV-dJC5ohL8/edit#gid=992184813
You’ll notice that apart from ex.fk, all of his fk’s have the same data. Note: that data only covers a “clean” fk - one that hits early in the active frames. The later hit mangles the numbers - need to put some work into this.
If you take KDR for example, it says that after a non-ex.fk, Guile’s at +24f. His f.dash is 18f and s.hp is active on frames 7, 8, and 9 (start-up 7f, active 3f). The +24f you started at is dropped to +6f after a dash, so any normal that’s active on its 6th frame will meaty the opponent. Based on that, the above setup doesn’t work, but there might be an element missing from my equation. Although, by my numbers, an ex.fk should be good to go with f.dash, s.hp.
After a KDBR, you’re at +29f off a clean non-ex.fk, so +11f after a f.dash. If you’ve already committed to a s.hp in-case of KDR, you’re going to have a bad time as you’ll be in recovery frames when they wake-up. I haven’t found anything that covers both options yet in terms of frame killers (normals whiffed to burn a precise number of frames), so I just eyeball it right now - this is next on my hitlist. Just know you have really good frame advantage regardless of how they recover after an fk, so learn which normals are active for 2 or 3 frames and apply by intuition. Also, note that booms (non-VT) eat 38f and go active on 10f, so look for setups that leave you at +11f or so and you can get perfect boom meaties at point-blank if you have charge.
eehhh, did you guys know you can alter the timing on vt.ex.boom?
Full-screen frame-traps…
Edit: if you’re in VT and score a convertable hit, for one bar you can get 357/545 by ending with vt.ex.boom. ex.fk does less damage and stun.
Pretty sure FK, dash, s.HP is a designed meaty against KDR. I regularly tested this against Ken’s LP DP. Even if it’s 1 frame behind who has a punish that’s active at the first frame?
I meantioned this earlier in the thread, but I’ll say it again: after a FK ender, you can walk forward slightly and get UDK to hit extremely meaty (so meaty that it will combo with no counter hit). This also sets up a really solid mix up between UDK and Throw
A 1f gap is only a problem if they block and s.hp isn’t meaty (-4 on block).
I’ll need to do some testing as things aren’t adding up air-tight - either I’m missing something in my calculations or the data is off slightly. It feels like there’s an extra frame or 2 in Guile’s favour after a knock-down, f.dash.