[Guide]How to punish strongly : Bnb and more

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1

Hello guys, first of all I have to explain why I come here with a new topic on chun’ bnb while there are a lot of already known topics on this very forum but, before to explain everything I have to apologize for the incoming syntax or grammatical errors (I’m not english).

Why this topic you noob bastard ?! learn to read english you dick head !!!
The anwser is pretty simple ; I play chun since a couple of months now but when I started with our lovely leggy woman I had a lot of trouble to find all the informations I wanted.
Because of the difficulty to find everything I wanted to know I spent a lot of time in training room searching for the best and more rentable combos. I started with the well known loop and quickly I understood that it’s not viable enough (chara spe and doesn’t do enough damage !).
The Bnb on this topic are all practical with a bit of practice, they are in my opinion the “must learn” if you start with Chun li or if you don’t use them already.

Legend :

cl = close.
cr = crouch.
xx = cancel.
FADC = FADC (you aren’t stupid aren’t you :p).
FUmk = the legs mk mashing to start the follow up.
*1 to 4 = Number of hit normal/special.

  • = link.
    KD = knock down.
    HKD = untechable knock down.

Informations on the loop :

What I call a loop is : cr.hp*1 xx hk.legs + FUmk.
The loop as you probably already know doesn’t work so well against some character but I didn’t find easily the list ; I made my own, tell me if I did a mistake.

Here are the character you don’t want to start a repetition on because the FUmk will not connect well :

Adon / Blanka / Cammy / Cody / Dan / Dictator / El Fuerte / E.Ryu / Gouki / Hakan / Ibuki / Ken / Oni / Ryu / Sakura / Viper

Notes : All the characters here can punishes you with normals or reversal, however Cammy and Hakan can’t punish you even tho they don’t take the full FUmk hits. Fuerte and sakura can’t punish you with normals but they can with reversal (shoryu, ultra, super).

If a character is not on this list, you can assume that a repeat works on him.

Combos explanations :

Now as I said earlier, the loops itself doesn’t do so much damage even with 1 repeat and isn’t an easy combo to do. Here are the combos I encourage you to learn to punish well enough. Indeed I read too often that chun li doesn’t do enough damage but it’s not true.

So, usualy the good chun players prefer to go for this : loop - cr.mk XX ex.legs = 296 damages… it’s not that great - btw, this combo doesn’t work on a standing sakura for some reasons-.
If you want to burn meter, you better use :

cl.hk xx hk.legs*4 FADC cl.hk xx hk.legs - cr.lp - far.hp = 352 (dmg) / 694 (stun) / 252 (meter gain)
As you can see the damage are way better but it costs more because of the FADC, or does it ? wrong, with all the hits it builds back 1 bar : cost 500 meter because of the FADC but build back 252.
If you have around 1,75 bar this combo is possible is the only one you should use to punish your opponent in my opinion ; More damage, same cost.

Now, this combo doesn’t KD but it doesn’t mean we can’t KD while doing a decent amount of damage :

cl.hk xx hk.legs*4 FADC cl.hk xx hk.legs - cr.lk xx ex.legs = 382 (dmg ) / 694 (stun) / 222 (meter gain)
Cost 2 meters, almost build 1 back and KD. In my opinion it’s worth it.

We even can have a HKD without spending that extra ex.legs :

cl.hk xx hk.legs*4 FADC cl.hk + FUmk - cr.hk = 365 (dmg) / 674 (stun) / 264 (meter gain)
This combo is character specific, I will give you an exhaustive list later but I can already tell you that it works on : Makoto / Dhalsim / Seth / Gen and probably more. I did the full combo on makoto and then did the following test with other character : cl.hk xx hk.legs + FUmk - cr.hk ; I extrapolate that if a character take this combo, he will take the full version too. I’ll test later and give you a real list.

This is too much for me, I think I’m dying call my family… what it’s not over ?!

cl.hk xx hk.legs*4 FADC cl.hk xx lk.legs - cr.mk xx ex.legs = 400 (dmg) / 696 (stun) / 234 (meter gain)
I did this combo on Makoto but I think it works well on a couple of other characters, basicaly I think it works against the characters who take : cl.hk xx hk.legs + FUmk - cr.hk ; However it is not something I am sure about, I will do some more test for this too and give you a list.

Raw BnB :

cl.hk xx hk.legs FADC cl.hk xx hk.legs - cr.lp - far.hp = 352 (dmg) / 694 (stun) / 252 (meter gain).
cl.hk xx hk.legs FADC cl.hk xx hk.legs - cr.lk xx ex.legs = 382 (dmg ) / 694 (stun) / 222 (meter gain).
cl.hk xx hk.legs FADC cl.hk + FUmk - cr.hk = 365 (dmg) / 674 (stun) / 264 (meter gain).
cl.hk xx hk.legs FADC cl.hk xx lk.legs - cr.mk xx ex.legs = 400 (dmg) / 696 (stun) / 234 (meter gain).

Feel free to participate, I’m am not 100% sure of a couple of things but I will test a lot later this week. If there are some obvious sentences errors (I’m not english, I do my best :p) feel free to tell me, I’ll edit later.

2

Not at home atm, but there are a few easy semi-high damage punishes to use that don’t cost meter.

c.hp x legs, c.lp, st.hp
This works on everyone I think and it’s very consistent, does not grant a knockdown though.

c.hp x legs, c.hk
is not that hard to get consistent with, and it doesn’t cost meter, it let’s you land a free kikouken afterwards and you can add a hazanshu to that unless they go for a risky wakup srk.

On fat characters like Abel/Dhalsim/Makoto/Juri etc. you can replace the starter with cl.hk x legs instead for higher damage output.

Another nice punish that works on everyone is cl.hk x hk legs, c.lp, st.hp OR you can make it easier + add some damage and a knockdown if you spend a bar with cl.hk x hk legs, c.lk x ex legs.

I tend to not want to use any meter if I’m not forced to because I love her super.

3

I’m sorry, I think it’s great that you are working in the lab, but in my honest opinion there is absolutely zero reason to FADC after the fourth hit of lightning legs.

By doing so you waste valuable meter that doesn’t actually increase your damage by that much. I would rather keep the meter for EX SBK, for an FADC to get out of a bad situation (or to bait something), or for Super.

Also depending on what specific combo you are doing, I don’t think your list is entirely accurate.

The typical combo for me is to just do cr.HP xx Legs > Sweep or cr.HP xx Legs > cr.MK xx EX Legs.

I have never seen these two combos NOT work on Adon, Cammy, Cody, Dictator, El Fuerte, Gouki, Hakan, Ken, Ryu, or Viper. Ibuki and Sakura are weird situationally and I don’t have enough experience against Dan, Oni or E. Ryu to say, although I see no reason it wouldn’t work on E.Ryu since his hitboxes are very similar to Ryu’s. Against many of these characters, it is even possible to link another cr.HP xx Legs loop to maximize meterless damage.

Again, please don’t take this personally. I think it’s awesome that there are still Chun players who are putting in time in the lab and looking for ways to increase her damage output - unfortunately I don’t think that using meter for FADCs is the solution.

4

in my thread is the full list anyways snake…

i have to say i was kinda hating while reading the OP, but then i realized that i have never tried FADC posibilities on the last 4th hit of LL and i have a couple ideas that i want to try now…

in the other hand i may have found a little BNB against crouching rog

CH cr.hp xx lk legs, cl.hk xx Legs

yes cl.hk after legs, i cant replicate this and record it with one hand tho

5

I disagree here. This isn’t actually a new set of combos and I’ll go over some points of why I think it’s worthwhile:

  • The benefit of FADC after HK legs is not only the extra damage, but also the stun of tacking on another cl. hk xx legs. The stun from it is one of the most often ignored perks from it and it’s the main reason I’ve been using it. It looks like a stylish combo, but it really is like a max-damage/max-stun combo as far as spending meter is concerned (and it’s a 2-3f link in this loop compared to the 1f link of the other loop). Starting this combo with a jump-in will put the opponent in immediate danger of stun on the next hit. Chun actually surpasses a lot of characters’ stun potential with this combo on a practical level, but nobody ever talks about it.
    So if I ever have a full bar (or 3.25 bars) and the opportunity to land it, I will pretty much always choose it over super because it does the stun that you wouldn’t get from super and only 14 points less damage (if you start from cl. hk xx hk legs, super will do 432 damage while the FADC loop with the cr. lp -> st. hp ender does 418 and 824 stun).

-There’s also an added bonus on the characters you can do cl. hk xx hk legs ~ mk legs on (Dudley and Makoto for example but there are several more), you can just make that your ender and either do a 2f link into st. hp (instead of 1f links) or end it with a sweep knockdown. Edit: Rin already mentioned this in the OP I see.

-He’s also right about it building a bar back if you complete the combo, so if you only have two bars you’ll ultimately only be using 1 bar for 352 damage and 694 stun and you’ll still have an EX SBK available at least. That’s very good in terms of exchanging resources for damage output imo.

-This doesn’t work as often on players who are comfortable blocking, but it’s also a frame trap on block. She’s +2f advantage after FADCing hk legs on block.

My only gripe with it is it’s best used as a punish combo instead of pressure unless you FADC on block because cl.hk xx hk legs pushes back too much sometimes compared to cr. hp xx hk legs. You have to get too close if you want to pressure without FADC (it’s okay to do it after a jump-in is blocked for example, but something like cr. lp then trying cl. hk xx hk legs can get you in trouble sometimes… most of the time it is safe though). I’ve also always hated the character specifics of who cl. hk xx hk legs ~mk legs works on. Losing the benefits of that does negatively affect some matchups imo.

I posted the character specifics to this in the other bnb thread, but for one the enders, some characters (like shotos) allow you to do cr. lk twice then EX legs after cl. hk xx hk legs so it’s a more confirmable ender than just doing cr. lk once then ex legs (since it’s a 1f link, I think the confirm is worth it).

6

I like your combos a lot and am on the bandwagon for using more FADC combos with Chun to increase her damage overall. I also began thinking about using more meter after watching more E. Ryu matches where he has no reservations for spending 2 meters for extra damage and corner push. I think Chun would benefit to explore from the mindset of going for damage/stun by using more meter.

It is good meter management to know that you are actually only using one bar after a well thought-out FADC combo. I commend you for that. 365 damage, lots of stun, and an untechable knockdown for 1 bar is not bad at all.

Tomorrow I am going to try out how much extra damage Chun can get from HSU FADC combos since she is +4 or 5? I think from HSU FADC. Should be somewhere around 463 dmg for Cl. HK xx HSU FADC HK xx hk ~ mk legs > Sweep. But doing a loop would do comparable damage and build more meter, wouldn’t it?

She can initiate a loop from lk legs, which is only 4 frames and can be plinked …

7

Chun Lab should be a thing. It put Fei on top. =p Just to do some number crunching before bed…

cl.hk xx hk.legs FADC lk.legs FUmk > cr. hp xx hk.legs FUmk > sweep 361 dmg/659 stun 310 meter gain?

I think thats right… So she uses 2 bars, but gets back a little over a bar after the combo is complete.

8

props to rin, dark and chutney

ill be trying this in tandem with hzu fadcs

9

On Honda. Cl.hk hk legs fadc cl.hk lk legs… Next stand jab hits second active frame… Can sweep or link whatever you want after…

Thanks for the info. Had so much fun playing around with these combos.

My only problem is that I have to be at point blank to make cl.hk hk legs viable. In comparison to crhp legs loops. .??

10

in most cases yes point blank

11

this is deff good info <3

12

Damn I totaly forgot about this post, I was in holiday for a month and didn’t had the time to finish this.
I’ll read your post later and edit a lot of things too, I did some more tests.

Quickly tho, a couple of guys don’t think these damaging combos are “usefull” but I have to point that since I use these combos I win a lot more often and not only because i’m an overall better chun, but because I gain a lot of stuns and my opponent aren’t fearless anymore. Random dragon everywhere isn’t a problem anymore if you punish badly a guy for doing it, the simple fact that he’s scared of a punish make them stop more than I thought.

Sorry for my bad english and this (very) late answer :p.

13

i have subbed to this thread <3

14

What input method do you guys use for the fadc combos? It’s hard for me to go into another rep of clhk hk legs.

I use slide.

Clhk hk legs = slide from hk mk lk mk hk.
Fadc clhk lk legs = (mk+mp+forward)*2. Then slide hk (will get close hk) mk lk…

I need help with getting the fadc hk into hk legs instead of lk legs :confused:

15

I use slide too and I rarely have this problem. It’s a 3f link after FADC, so there’s plenty of time to slow down a bit after the FADC and do a clean slide and keep up with the rhythm (I turn on infinite meter and try to get to 99 hits without dropping for practice).

Do you really press MP+MK twice when you FADC? Because there could be your problem (technically buffering in another MK input so when you slide, you’ll already have 5 inputs by the time you get to either LK or MK). I just hold MP+MK for like a split second and then dash when I FADC so it can start from the 1st input of Legs when I connect the next cl. HK.

The only other thing I can think of (and I do this intentionally when I go for cr. Mk xx HK Legs to get the 5 inputs), is not to pass over LK twice when you slide your finger whenever you’re starting from cl. HK.

16

3f link? it feels a lot more strict to me :S

17

Yup, it’s +6 on hit after FADC. Just 1 frame shy of being able to FADC into Ultra 1. :frowning:
I confirmed that after I did that PC mod to make Chun’s B+mk startup in 6f, but you can calculate the frame advantage by other means too and it’ll still come out to +6.

18

Hey guys, i was really curious. With leg loops, does it matter which version you loop with? Can I loop with HK?

19

It’s like this: Lightning Legs starts off as a 4 hit move. You can either end it there or you can extend it into another 4 hits by inputting any strength kick 5 more times and the strength of the 5th input will determine which version of the extended legs comes out. These extended versions all have a different frame advantage than the version of Legs you started off with. See here

So when you go for the loop from cr. HP, you want to start off with the HK version of Legs since it has the least pushback (it’s important to be close to enough to continue the loop) and then you want to end with the MK Legs extension because that’s the only version that is +7 on hit and will allow you to link cr. HP again for the loop.

20

i hate that question with my soul