ggs man! what the hell is the throw tech timing? and can i block out of one if im mashing tech? ill blame online for now. holy shit nicole is awesome vs lv 50s! 
Yeah, itās probably being online. I can still play decent online, but I think host always wins if both player spam a, and I drop the second half of my valgar comboā¦ Itās annoying, but not as bad as I imagined it would be, so I can deal with it.
Anyway, I think youāre right about Undead Hero not being so bad as I thought. You totally stomped me; I didnāt really know what I was doing with him but I donāt think it would have changed much.
Actually, does luck have anything to do with dropping out of combos? I felt like some things that work with luck off might not work with it on; I used to be able to connect Kanonās throw -> jumping laser beam but either Iām bad at it, itās character-dependent, or a stat was interfering.
Iām probably bad at it. 
(or maybe I did it in training mode without recovery. Hmmmmmā¦)
OH ALSO: I want to play Proto silver but I canāt figure out how to be good with him. Anybody have ideas? I know basic combos if I can get a good dash going, but nobody will justl et you run across half the screen to themā¦
yeah i think a lot of stuff is either character specific (not just by size but by baseline stats like higher agi), and i think you can still mash to enhance hitstun recovery (which i do out of habit). a lot of things just seem to have real tight timing like gluteās launcher combo which i only land about half the time. super zur falls out of my randy bnb 90% of the time and i have to remind myself to uppercut early. i think his hitbox decreases cuz he goes into that coward pose when heās getting hit. i wonder if the netcode has trouble reading inputs cuz ill just stop moving during sync sometimes from swallowed inputs and other times ill just tap a once and get a full target combo.
i like your throw combos. im sure offline youd be getting techd more but valgar shouldnt care with all the block situations he can put you in off of jab or his forward kicks. i think you can combo into a light electric ball to push them into a corner.
id never seen kanons throw into beam. that shit hurts! im always debating how much men to assign and then i remember tornado is a free kill regardless. thanks for giving me a chance test ice into mp charge. i ran into the ice like a scrub!
SRK+medium is a good way to get in if youāre not at risk of being hit out of the startup. Gives pretty good frame advantage upon contact. HCF+medium is also a pretty safe approach in my experience.
A lot of the time Iām content to just down+heavy from range and neutral+heavy up close though.
I found this forum by googling āguardian heroes balancing.ā Iām hoping they will release some updates for Guaridan heroes HD. I want them to balance the game as much as possible. I found some bugs.
Donāt train in training mode. infinite air combo is left on with no option to turn it off. I train in vs mode with STR turned off.
As far as how i like to play, I prefer 6 payer lvl 200 match. Iāve played a match with at least 4 pros and there was nothing cheap about it. It was randy, Ginjiro, valgar, and Sword Han. Sward han is nuts so everyone was cautious of him of course. I managed to pull off a 12 hit combo wasting around 600-800 damage. If you get caught in it with no mana to counter, you are screwed.
anyway, this is what I have done for my rules:
I disabled all the weak characters. I disabled G-Silver cause he always dies way too soon. Also, its as if everyone aims for him making the games stupid. I cranked up the spirits mana to 3x cause they can regenerate anyway in less then a second. Their magic waste a crap load too. Iāve tested it and still won fairly easily against noobs I lowered the undead hero, general, sword han, and super Zur to level 175 while everyone else is at 200. Kannon from 1 to 2x mana consumption.
I also emailed and sent to segaās forums. I told them to add a check box for mana consumptions for counters/forcebacks and weather they are effected or not. Iāve played with a few pros and they seem to like my set up.
Iām basically trying to make 3 rules. One for lvl 100, another for lvl 200, and 1 for lvl 50
Well, I"m sure some people wonāt like my set up. But a sword han at lvl 175 is still really good. I want to fight some of you guys on Guardian. add me as a friend on xbox live. Iām xellon.
so you play 3 on 3 with kanon, spirits, super zur, and nando enabled?
Here are the rules I normally set for lvl 200:
Disabled characters: Everyone on the bottom row along with Zur, Golden Silver, Royal Knight, Royal Blade, Rebel, Skeliton, Zombie, Royal Purger, and Royal Mage.
The characters I underlined I may think about enabling. I was able to use the Royal Blade and I won against Super Zur Barely. Obviously, the guy was a noob LMAO, wish I recorded it The combos he can pull off are pretty strong too but he isnāt very versatile.
Golden silver is always the first to die while everyone else still has like 1500 hp or more left so I got rid of him. Everyone tends to get rid of him first anyway making it dumb.
Move restrictions: Nicoleās healing, Earth Spirits Barrier. People say the barriers are cheap but I never had issues with them. If I get caught in the corner blocking, I forceback. If I get hit in the corner, I counter. If I donāt have any mana, then Iām screwed just like any other magic on the game. The Earth spirits having it is gay though. WTF?
Level Restrictions: All players must play at lvl 200.
The following are set to level 175: Sword Han, Undead Hero, Undead General, Spirits, and Super Zur for obvious reasons.
Mana Restrictions:
Undead Hero, and Undead General set to x 3.00
Spirits Set to x 3.00. With skills, you can always have mana with them.
Kanon set to x 2.00.
Super Zur set to X 2.00 To avoid a constant Throw Beam combo. This is also horrible against Dark Frail characters.
Game Settings:
Block Damage is off
Analog Row Movement is off (doesnāt matter anyway)
Flight is Off (I may turn it on with friends or pros that wonāt abuse it)
Infinite Arial combos is off (I think this was specifically made for Genjiro. I can do an infinite air combo with him if its enabled).
Corpse are on (it was there on the original so why take it away? You can use them for diff strategies too).
Remix enabled
10 min battle
default 2.0 damage
characters are selectable
match type death match
teams selectable
levels selectable
starting positions random
I along with a few friends play free for all, 1v1, 2v2, or 3v3 (mostly free for all at lvl 200 so 6 slots open). I havenāt tried 12 players due to the fact that too many people lag. If there is lag during a game, there is a way to go back to the screen where you can kick people. Its a little trick I like doing.
It lags when you talk during the game after a while. So have everyone talk constantly till it lags out, then kick whoever, then start the game. Normally they try to sign back in, but they normally leave if the game already started.
edit - Iāll also take the time to make a lvl 100 and 50 rule since it seems some people like it. I havenāt tried it yet or point match. I just feel like its lame having your character restricted from what they can really do. Ginjiro for example without full agility is a no no for me. So I tend to crank that up. If you have no agility, there is a chance that you wonāt be able to do certain combos (well, thatās how it was on the original, not sure if its diff for remix).
edit - Let me know what you guys think of my rules. I want to adjust it toā¦ erm, some peoples likings. Basically rules that pros would like.
i cant tell you why 3on3 lv 200 is bad, because the whole idea of a tourney standard is preference and youre gonna like what you like, but i can show you that lv50 orthodox is faster and more varied playstyle-wise than you think it is. im off tomorrow if you have time to play (est).
Yea, 3 on 3 we donāt do often. It only happens once in a blue moon. Its mostly free for all and 2v2. I have time tomorrow but my friends work tomorrow. I think I can invite 1 or 2 good players if they are on. Just send me a friend request.
Iāll make a lvl 50 rule as well. Perhaps the same rules except limit the OP characters to like 30 or 40 or maybe.
K, so I played at lvl 50 and I did enjoy it. At first, it was 1v1 and I was up against Super Zur at level 35 with x 2.00 mana consumption. I had Genjiro at lvl 50. I was freaken out cause I had to use every ounce of my skills just to beat that freak. Super Zur is insane even at level 35. One throw beam and your almost dead. So I made sure I did a throw escape whenever I could and countered when I didnāt escape the throw fast enough. My attacks waste almost nothing and his hp was regenerating when he kept gliding though the air like a freak.
I decided to not get VIT cause Iām just that good. I put everything on agility and out sped him in every way so he couldnāt get off many attacks. I also put some stats on str and luck. With luck, you have a chance of doing 80 damage on a single hit. Took me some time to find what was effective against him but that worked.
He was good at defending against magic so I didnāt go for intel.
Iāve heard about throw -> Beam with Super Zur but Iāve yet to see it. Can you cancel the throw early or something?
I think I like your rules Xellon but Iām not going to really try to critique them or anything for the time being. I donāt have a lot of time right now and Iām still smoothing out my lvl 50 rules. Although, I should have some time to play online this week so Iāll add you (or you can add me, GT: Acosta02) and we can play your rules if you want. I do agree with poon though that lvl 50 is really varied, and I think it adds some strategy in what stats to boost. Plus, Lvl 32 luck vs. 32 luck sounds like damage output would be straight-up dice rolls 
You canāt really complain about almost dying from one move if you didnāt buff your VIT; especially with a low-life character like Genjiro. VIT is HP+ and DEF+.
ggās xellon. that gen is sick. f+B hit confirms are brutal! i still donāt like above lv 50. everyone can max 3 stats and certain characters have no choice but to default to whatever highest base stat they have. like i play randy, but since everyone can boost men, vit, and str iād be crazy to try and get in with melee since i wouldnāt deal any damage, i would lose most trades, and iām constantly at a life disadvantage. plus even on a 3 player ffa you saw how i could just lame out the match with a magic character whereas lv 50 you kinda have to try and setup a really good opportunity since everyoneās committing to a particular strat from the edit screen. exchanges are way more urgent vs wearing down their base stat flaws over 5+ minutes of grinding. at 50 i can major in one stat and play balls out, i can counter their dominant stat, i can spread minor in 3 stats and try to play solid, or i can minor in two and lessen the risk in a major.
plus max agi/max dam makes online throw into juggle way obnoxious. throw techs are complete guesses and it always pays off to attempt it at higher levels whereas in lv 50 itās more to open up turtles and itās not exploiting a potentially laggy guess into massive damage. i take issue with the throw/tech mechanic in general. i think you anticipated one of the few successful techs i made and went straight into an air combo off of it. again this is most likely a lag issue, but i think this is something lv 50 helps minimize. if it were up to me iādve made it cause a reeling animation for both characters ala third strike with pushblock invincibility, or just get rid of throws completely and up chip damage for online.
anyway thatās my 2 cents. look forward to playing ya more.
Just to be clear, Vit doesnāt help defend against dark beams, Men does. Either way, go confirm how much it does on any non-OP character and you will see what I mean. The problem is his grab distance is too good. Characters like P-Silver, Xenovia, Gen has a high chance of throwing more often then Randy or Serena.
I can see your point here. If I was against a melee player with str and Vit, I would focus on Vit and Int since Randy is resistance to all spells, no need worry about high damage from nukes. If I sayā¦ fought Vulgar with his Str and Vit (a nightmare to fight), First thing I always do is make him drain his mana. Randy can combo you into a spell which is awesome (I screwed it up against you cause Iām not used to the combo with no agl). So after 1 grab, jump M Att, Jump M attack, slam him down, then tornado. With high intel and if they have no mana, their screwed. Luckily, no melee fighter except for super zur and undead is resistant to tornados since they count as Force attacks. For Randy vs Super Zur, rely on Randyās beams since Super Zur has no resistance to fire.
Yea, I always focused on agl + vit at lvl 50. With Gen, its easy to out-speed most characters. I try to throw in some strength so I can do some damage. I noticed u got luck. Wasnāt so sure about luck but it aināt bad, its like you get a couple critical hits in between attacks. lvl 50 games isnāt so bad. You do have to plan accordingly to your stats. However, even though stats give you a bonus, each character has more then what it appears. Ex, Hans focus is str. Even if every character has 32 str, he will have more health and defense then anyone (vit adds to your defense). So even if you play at lvl 200, Its still hard for randy to fight Vulgar if he counters out of spells. Force Hits waste a good amount on him still. He also has the lowest hp out of anyone on the game.
I admit, it is pretty nuts lol especially when going up against a fast character like gen. Iām not good enough with Randy to pull it off yet but Most characters (if not all) can do a continuous attack without leaving themselfs open (I think hans charge might be diff). So you can cancel into any special attack you may have. I tend to jump a lot and dash kick combo to avoid getting thrown. If it looks like Iām about to get thrown, I try to throw them instead and I end up tecking out of it. IF they donāt throw, Iām gonna probably get combo-ed to death. So there is some guessing involved. But the worst thing that can happen to you is countering out of a combo just to end up in it again. If that happens once on a 50 match, seems to be over unless you have someone like han that can take hits.
But yea, it was fun. GGs. Next time, Iāll see if I can get some more good players in there.
yeah just to reiterate this was my point in defense of low level to give you the ability to counter the natural advantages some characters have at the expense of another stat instead of having a ton of xp points and being stuck playing your character with his strongest natural trait since everyone is gonna max out most of their stats. i was playing han more cuz a melee randy sucks at high levels.
i cant ever get spell inputs properly online. if you saw me do a lightning it was supposed to be either a fb or tornado.
same as above.
i use uppercut moves (d,d + a) to cancel target combos (a,a,a) into a forward dash to keep pressure on. you were smart with the force pushes so i had to cancel out early. i could have backstepped to punish more but i have to keep reminding myself that even exists.
well actually you do less damage at lv 50 and i put 25 into vit on avg so i can survive way more throw combos than at 100+. also if i anticipate a throw tech wrong against gen, his speed will beat my attack every time. couple that with his safe shuriken attack that can lead into a full combo and you have to be thinking about him 6 character lengths away all the time. with a larger tech window or without the throw altogether it wouldnt be as stressful online imho.
did you like my attempted cross under into throw where it read the input as a back throw and the han clone guy started bashing thin air in the wrong direction?
I too need to remember the backstep exist xD
The problem is, on the saturn version it was almost useless so I never used it (yes, I still got my saturn xD). Now on remix, you can backstep inside a beam without getting hurt as long as you have magic. I loled when someone did that while I beamed a few games back.
Melee + range = killer
I donāt remember that much :rolleyes:
I probably wonāt be on till Thur afternoon. Iām in school mon though thur almost all day. Add Defiant Shinobi to your friends list. Tell him Xellon told ya to send a request. He is pretty good with vulgar. He uses randy; superzur, and sword han from time to time using the 175 lvl rule I set and he still wins with that killer sword sometimes. I doubt he will play anything but 200 though, he might. Last time I played him in 50 he was drunk too lol
yeah i kept my saturn til they announced remix cuz i knew iād never find a game in vanilla ever again. i swear the backstep in original mode is slightly better than the saturn one. iām so pissed they couldnt keep the seizure inducing flicker effects! i think randys robe used the same effect cuz it doesnt move in his command stomp. lame.
iāll add your friend but lv 200 is so booooring! i might have to get drunk to play it.
Hey guys, Iāll like your help on this. Iāve had some experience with some treasure games: Guardian Heroes gba(limited exp), Bleach DS (extensive exp), Gunstar Heros (mediocre) Yu Yu Hakusho Makyoutohissen.
Iāve been considering in getting this game. ** **But Iām reluctant to get it out of fear of me being overwhelmed with set ups. While Iāll acknowledge that this game isnāt competitive driven, versus mode is what appeals. I was wondering if you people can give me some guide lines in approaching this game.
Iāll first like to know how many viable strategies are their? Which classes ( or character) fits into each style?
Iāll also like to have a character recommendation. (Though I will experiment for myself)
Clip notes about my self:
Generally I prefer a character that requires mastery of fundamentals and with balance move set. Strategies Iām most comfortable with are turtling ones, ironically Iām not fan of excessive turtleing in running time outs, but more of forcing my opponent to take the initiative and capitalize on their mistakes. Iāll normally low tier whore but trying not to do that this time.
I hardly come on these forums. I just happen to see this message on my old email xD Iāll havenāt played in a few weeks due to work but Iāll be getting back on soon enough.
Anyway, Iet me think. In order to force someone to take the initiative, Of course, blocking, dodging and foreceback are important to get used to. Know when to forceback, or dodge for a counter attack. Let me thinkā¦ Lets say Vulgar. His projectile is fast and it takes no mana. This forces your opponent to either run to the background or jump (or go under if they are capable of doing so. only a few characters can). So getting between his projectiles and finding an opening can be somewhat tricky. Normally a fireball may do the trick but it depends on a couple factors.
I think pretty much anyone with a projectile that doesnāt take mana can force someone to go on the initiative. Skywarrior for example. However, I find the sky warrior to be a very easy character to use. Practice with him for a couple weeks and you can probably hang with the big boys easily.
But in General, whats important to master in order to win is the following:
1 - Mana management (do you need to forceback? Do you need to counter? If you use a spell that guaranteed to hit, when can they counter)?
2 - A good combo (at least 400 damage)
3 - Reflexes. Counter as soon as possible when ur about to get hammered and not after (I see a lot of people counter after getting hit by a beam and not during).
4 - Donāt leave yourself open. You can cancel almost any attack and go into another.
5 - Throwing into a combo and avoid being thrown.
Welp, it comes to exp mostly though. Just avoid using the characters I mentioned on my earlier posts as some people tend to ban them for being cheap.
Anybody still play