Growing KOF

Current Fighting Games King of Fighters
21

I really want this game to succeed as much as possible. There has got to be some method of doing so but everyone is still trying to figure things out. All I can think of right now hosting more KOF related events and keep those comprehensive tutorials rolling…
Online… this is tough as hell - I mean we have regional accounts and networks set up but even fighting within your own region becomes difficult and inconsistent for some odd reason. But still… one does not just play online unless that’s all they can resort to in order to level up and that’s a real problem. It’s hard to level up when you can not play consistently online. Making friends and increasing in communication is definitely worth it, however - if you do have a good connection with the friend that you fight against (I have a friend in Portugal who plays a pretty mean K’/Saiki/Iori team and is trying to increase his own skill as well and I also fight people from France with surprisingly good connection and little to no lag whatsoever).
But the point still remains that the net code cripples KOFXIII game play. But, people are still trying to build this community in the best way possible…

Otherwise, for now, KOFXIII players have to resort to streaming and recording events that are strictly KOFXIII related. Those tutorials and information management tactics are a big help as well… but, we’re going to need something… more if KOFXIII is going to keep its place - I mean KOFXIII did become one of the greatest fighting games of this generation and was also nominated as the greatest fighting game of the year 2011 which a great feat…

22

Its not as simple as people are quitting, what happened/ is happening with KOF XIII is common sense and its happened with many other fighting games over the years its just much more noticeable with KOF XIII.

KOF XIII was and arcade release well before it came to consoles and one thing the locations I listed had in common was access to the arcade version of the game, they were playing and practicing this game a for good while before other people. The other thing those places have is an actual local scene of dedicated KOF players. Bad online already make the need for a strong local scene more important if you want to improve, but when you have a strong local scene and a huge head start of course you are going to be much better than everyone else.

  1. Local scene
  2. Head start

So why is west coast owning East Coast? One Word: Mexico
California had a strong local scene, access to the arcade version of the game and close proximity to top Mexican KOF players

Its no ones fault that this happened, but its also common sense that this happened.

23

SNK titles won’t get very far in the US unless they have a good netcode. Hell, that applies to almost any fighter. If Guilty Gear, KOF, TvC, or any non-mainstream fighter got a sequel with good netcode right now, you might see a bit more use.

Also, what do SNK junkies think of NeoGeo Battle Colosseum? I’d play it more, but I can’t find good information on it for the life of me. I’ve heard that it actually has working netcode on XBL.

24

Well that is good for the So cal players because either the Mexicans can ride up from their to a Socal Tourney or if they are residing there then yes Socal would have an advantage of constant exposure. I wonder if the players in that situation though are suffering from Virtua Fighter syndrom though, in regards too I can’t remember who said it but it was a Top Japanese Virtua Fighter player who said learning the game is impossible on your own so you usually get a master who teaches you but then as a result you very rarely if ever will beat him. I wonder if the same holds true for KOF? I learned everything on my own but I kinda wonder if a situation similarily taking place if it would unfold the same way for these players.

Also with top level ass beatings people are bound to get motivated if for nothing else then to beat the competition.

In regards to the netcode. I know this is grasping but is there anyone who knows anyway to get into contact with SNK, for petition purposes only. I don’t play online at all, it’s not the same as in person, but I understand that me being a dinosaur on this issue isn’t helping and that most people need this as a genuine tool to help grow and mature game wise. Is there anyway to send out a petition worldwide? EU has Orochinagi US has Dreamcancel Japan has fiber optics so they don’t count, but the other regions really need this. Or more so Atlus as I think they handled everything for XIII. I feel like they need to be bothered like shawshank redemption style when he kept sending letters until the state caved so he could build a library. If demon souls got it servers put back up indefinately though dark souls is out I think we can rally enough to at least get SNK to give us another glance. If anything can be done please reach out to anyone you know.

25

Good or bad game, thats really subjective. It is just that the number of tutorials and interest in Capcom games are 10 times larger. Sure not every tutorial of Capcom games is top notch but at least there are more chances for a good tutorial. Even Melty Blood, which has a smaller and more exquisite user base, features better tutorials.
I mean tutorials for beginners, not more advanced ones. There wouldnt be a point really.

Playing to win would be beneficial for games like Breaker’s Revenge or Savage Reign that do not have such a steep learning curve and are more user friendly.

But for games like KOF, Garou, Last Blade and Samurai Spirits lack of a proper guide surely hurts newcomers. I can get locked in a cell for a month and practice combos endlessly. that doesnt mean I’ve learned the game.

26

Err. what? KOF has the best tutorial video of any fighting game ever.

[media=youtube]Ye3KVgI1LvU[/media]

Character specific videos, not so much, but the wiki is really fleshed out compared to say, sf4 or marvel. A lack of accessible resources really isn’t the reason why KOF is unpopular.

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/The_King_of_Fighters_XIII

And even older KOF’s like 2002 has a fair bit of information:

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/The_King_of_Fighters_2002

27

thats the point, the absence of character specific videos. Compared to MvC and SFs I only find a few text files of combos instead of whole threads and videos as it occurs with those games.
KOFXIII tries to amend this issue. Unfortunately it is much easier for newcomers to jump from SF4 to older Capcom games, than from KOFXIII to older SNK games.

28

You’re talking about beginner tutorials, though. I can see the need for information for advanced character-specific stuff once people really get into the game, as there are a LOT of tricks to learn, but for beginners? There’s enough info in the SRK Wiki and DC wiki that tells you about normals and specials and why you should use them. And really, the hitboxes seem to translate well to the animations, so you can often tell by the animation what buttons you should be pressing and when.

You can also use 1-guard-jump in practice mode to determine what’s really unsafe and what’s not, so at least on a basic level you know what you can throw out a bit and what you should only be hit-confirming.

Been playing around with KoF on and off since its release, and it was never a lack of information that got to me, it was my crappy execution.

29

I dont wanna come across argumentative but i do not agree.
The quality of game has everything to do with it, i dont wanna turn this into a capcom v snk thing because i like both and could not care less either way.

But alot of older snk games are completely fucked, thus people moved on pretty fast or just dont care, old sf is timeless people still having major touneys for it today of course your gonna have alot more info for a game where you’ve got not only a bigger player but a MASSIVE! one
When snk started to make games that were not full of bullshit you see the player base pick up, see RB2 kof2002 kof98 thus people start making guides and stuff, but then again i do think it’s regional also, i’m sure if you could read jap kor hk i’m 99% sure you’d find guides for older snk games

It’s also not really fair say why does melty blood have more guides than say samurai showdown
One thing i’d say about that is melty blood has been around in the internet age where info is eaten, puked up and eaten again, comparing it to a dead game who last game was in 2002, if ss had been prominent during the same time period you’d probably have an equal amount of info available.
I mean there’s still guides available for ss5sp over at mizumi wiki (who do a really good job) and stuff, so there is alot info about (even for dead/older games) i’m not exactly sure what your problem is

I mean ok there might be less info but still, i’d take quality over quantity.

And your very last point, it’s true, but does reading a guide mean you understand the game any more either?
If i had a better connection i’d like to issue this challenge, choose a game we both dont have a clue about, give it a week i play the game only, you read guides only and we’d see who would come out on top.
But my net is shit so it’s really an empty gesture =(

30

In my arcades I remember at the time of SF2 (1994), there was also an arcade cab or World Heroes 2 and Samurai Spirits. they werent less broken or polished than SF2, perhaps SS1 was even better than SF2. Yet far fewer people played those games
There were quality titles, they just had shitty console ports (Genesis and SNES). this really cost them a lot. So they were lumped together with the Art of Fightings…

SNK relied too much on their arcade machines and Neo Geo console and then realized that its too late when the focus shifted to consoles.

Nah! While I’d try to discover the possibilities of the game playing freely, you’d demolish me with infinites and broken characters!

31

NGBC netcode was flawless. Out of the 2-3 people that I fought, there was no input delay and I could do all my moves on reaction. A shame nobody plays it.

That’s the thing I don’t get about online warriors. Here’s a game with the best netcode SNK Playmore has ever done and one of the best online fighting game netcodes on XBL, and no one gives a shit. Then when KOFXIII drops, people say they didn’t play it cause the netcode is awful, yet some of these people are Comsic Lords or played over 1000 matches in MVC3 and that game’s netcode is straight up dogshit; much worse than KOFXIII.

32

A couple of my own opinions on why KOF is dying. Just observations since KOF13 is my first KOF and I could be completely off base.

  1. Netcode

This is the most glaring weakness about KOF13. In order for a game to REALLY flourish these days it needs to have **playable **netcode. Not necassarily good but playable. KOF13 is terrible, even local matches with people who live within 20 miles from me can have up to a second of input lag sometimes. Some people don’t have a scene within their range and some are just lazy and like to use that excuse… so no netcode really hurts the amount of players playing the game.

  1. The KOF13 is “hard” myth.

The game really isn’t very hard. If I can pick it up in the little amount of time that I did then I think anyone can. Problem is it still takes time. So this sort of relates to the netcode part… people dont want to go to locals and just get thumped over and over until they learn how to play. They want to get off the rust online then go play locally.

I don’t really know why people still consistently think KOF13 is such a hard game to play. Maybe because they go into mission mode and take the impractical combos seriously. I actually find SF4 harder to play for me because I like to always be doing things and pressing buttons. I like to jump and KOF allows that much more than SF4. Might just be a personal thing though.

  1. Old school KOF players aren’t as big of a fan.

This is my first KOF game so I don’t have any other KOF game to go off of probably why I love it to death. From what I have read from the older players is that the game rewards big damage combos instead of footsies and fundamentals like old titles which makes sense since you can do some crazy damage with HD mode and just drive cancels in general. But in the new age of games to survive and hold an audiences attention long enough you need fancy combos that make people go “oooohhhh ahhhh!”.

Just my opinion though, luckily my scene in Seattle still is pretty decent with 10-15 players who really love the game and are passionate about it and don’t want to see it die.

33

I have to strongly disagree with this although really good post overall.

But both netcodes suck so I never really understood the point of comparing shit with shit. Its like arguing who is better in the NFL the Chiefs or the Browns… no one really cares.

34

Kof doesn’t have someone hyping it up, Evo was the only hype thing because it wasn’t free for bala. It has hype but sets are kinda determined after the first match, it’s kinda like cvs 2 Jr. It has the character diversity but your kyo and my kyo are the same. It doesn’t have grooves, selectable supers/ultras for some kind of diversity which is a shallow thing the new community likes, Hd cancels are amazing as an idea but it would be more appealing if you could do it more and have it a little bit more op, kof doesn’t appeal to the masses because it’s to honest in a sense.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

35

I dont understand the 13 is hard line of thinking either, game is so fucking easy to play in terms of needing decent execution, maybe one of the easiest i’ve ever played.

I’ve been playing since 95 i cannot have somebody "oh kof 13 is too technical or demanding " then go and fucking play blazblue
Seriously i’m not even joking that game gives me so much trouble in terms of my execution, and i used to be moderately decent at gg to
People are lazy but also blinkered, like tatakis original post if it aint ryu and so on people just are not interested.

If sure if kof came first or fatal fury whatever we’d be having these discussion in reverse, anybody who remembers the early 90’s remembers any game that came out was always just called an sf clone, to change years and years of i dont know what else to call it indoctrination, takes a long time to change

36

You have to remember that 13 is the first real KOF game since the fighting game scene boom back in 09. So people heard the old KOF games were hard so they assume its the same with this one.

It doesn’t help that almost every commentator has to bring up that its “a mans game” or “isn’t SF4 or Marvel” in almost every single KOF broadcast ever (these are more annoying than the “KOF13 is very balanced almost every character can win” which is brought up probably 3+ times per stream). So the people who haven’t played KOF get this huge misconception thanks to people trying to puff out their chest about the game they play.

37

The notion of KOFXIII being “too difficult” or "too hard’ is a blatant lie and is causing a lot of misinformation as it is. As for the net code - evenif it is inherently problematic, it is not quite as bad as many individuals exaggerate it out to be. It is still possible to manage some good game play improvement if your settings are well adjusted and if the players set up the appropriate regional match making processes.
All we can do as of now is to keep showing for events that have KOFXIII in the line up and showcase how awesome it really is. Continue playing the game. Again, it would be better if the tournaments were more centralized towards simply KOFXIII in itself. Methods of increasing publicity and including moreplayers can relate to the whole classroom tutorial aspect I mentioned earlier. People will be able to view the teaching process - they will see the players
themselves and KOFXIII on the television and they will describe the system mechanics, notations via stick/pad, and character specific aspects as DISCREETLY as possible.

Another thing… match analysis. Every now and then, people get to witness how matches are conducted in SSFIV. One was recently done on a match between Infiltration and Daigo Umehara himself. Why not have a group of individual analyze the matches in this manner and openly highlight what the characters can do and even explain the mechanics as they talk about the match. Many character already have frame data on them too, so KOFXIII players can request and conduct match analysis and review it all together. Highlight mistakes, provide insight on meter management, frame data, moves, glitches, match ups, gimmicks, etc…
The people who review the match can even simulate the game play and assess the notations and mechanics themselves as they play. Add some pretty humor perhaps to keep it entertaining? Provide information on the characters capabilities and the players mind set. Tell players what they should and should not do… Little things like that. The messages in the said methods should all be as discreet, correct, and well thought out as possible…

38

mvc3 netcode is way way better than kof13…but still crap.

39

I’ll be frank. The “community” lacks dedication. But before that, lacks true/genuine interest in KOF as a whole.

Before KOFXIII, the KOF “community” in the US as represented by online forums were just a bunch of scrubs that were probably some poor ethnic minority that picked up some KOF collections at the bargain bin in some Gamestop and just keep wishlisting for characters rather than be able to use their means to actually learn and play the game. GGPO, Supercade, nfba with kaillera were good enough means to learn the fundamentals of KOF and to enjoy playing KOF with others. The only good players in the US are just expatriates that come from other nations and have already developed their skills elsewhere. When I ask players on GGPO that are represented by the US flag that I find to be decent/good/great players, they’re often from China/Taiwan/Morocco/Pakistan/Anywhere but homegrown US players.

Post KOFXIII, we have a bunch of people that “latched” onto the game but quickly fell of as fast they got on. Same things are happening to other new games as well that aren’t the main Capcom games, and even these communities seem to have stagnant growth in skill level.

We especially saw the decline in participation as soon as Persona came out and even Persona’s scene rapidly dwindled.

If a person truly enjoys the game or its series with sincerity, that person will find a way to play it and enjoy it. One way or another.

A great thing about KOF is that basic system doesn’t change that much from each generational series (96-98 Normal, 99-2000 Strikers, 03-XI Tag, 02/XIII Variation of Normal) unlike going from SFII to Alpha Series, to III Series. If a person really wanted to learn how to play KOF, they’d find a means to play a form at KOF to improve his or her own overall KOF skill. Even learning a different KOF game from one’s “main KOF” game helps broaden one’s perspective of one’s characters to help define one’s general understanding of the toolset.

If people can’t play XIII online, there are still other very accessible KOF games with stable enough online. Even if XIII is a person’s “main KOF” that shouldn’t give them an excuse to not enjoy the rest of the series and expand their overall knowledge of KOF. And it’s not as if one has to stop playing XIII if one picks up another KOF, just go back into XIII’s training mode to refreshen up on slightly different timings, particular set ups, and or KOF XIII specific characters such as Hwa Jai or Mr. Karate.

With that said, it doesn’t help that KOF XIII, as much as it’s called an “honest” game, doesn’t reward that much for what it emphasized in older games. It’s still a pretty fraudy game. HD combo damage output is worse than Ultras but at least doesn’t function as silly as X Factor. Anti-air normals have been purposely nerfed by SNKP. More specials/supers that are faster and more invul than any other KOF game. Etc., etc. The game rewards more reckless, idiotic play as long as someone grinding more combos and meter managing than actual spacing and ground game. There’s a reason why the game is still called “kusoge.”

So let’s say one dedicates his or her time solely to KOF XIII, it’s still as if they’re not really learning KOF. Just a more shallow shell of what it used to be. At least Climax stepped it up from the stupidity that KOF XIII Arcade was and what XII was. I still feel that the devs know what they’re doing unlike Capcom devs; but, they’re intentionally trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator like everyone else is doing.

In the end it’s all moot, everyone else’s dedication, commitment, or genuine passion for “playing and growing with the game” has been apparent before XIII or even XII was released and it’s still apparent now.

Once my new stick comes in since my refurbished PSX pad that I bought at EVO last minute finally gave out, I’ll still be playing on GGPO and Supercade in KOF98. Just I have been for the past 3 years since I touched KOF for the first time.

I still tool around 98um’s, XI’s, 02um’s, and XIII’s training modes just so I can be warmed and ready at Major’s and EVO’s to play any of those games at BYOC just by the off chance someone else wants to play KOF with me.

I like KOF. I play KOF. I learn KOF.

40

Nope.

I can’t speak specifically for Kyo because I only know one person who plays Kyo and another who plays EX Kyo - but I have definitely found that the same character can be played very differently from person to person.

Hell, I got knocked out of a finals I thought I had in the bag because, even though I was very comfortable fighting a top level player’s rushdown/mix-up oki-based Duo Lon, this guy played Duo Lon as a keepaway zoner using his extremely long pokes and EX teleports to keep distance and slowly whittle my health away without me even touching him - and it friggin’ worked.

I’ve seen people who go for knockdowns with Chin so they can drink, and I’ve seen others who act as if Chin doesn’t even have a drink mechanic. I’ve seen people blow all their meter on Hwa Jai to get him drunk and start tearing up, and I’ve seen others use him as a battery and play pure footsies with him. I’ve seen a lot of players play characters in very different ways - and those different ways be just as effective and others.