So Clinty’s post in some other thread got me thinking about the comic book duos:
Avengers Assemble. Time to put our heads together and come up with tier listings!
Lee & Kirby are the most obvious and probably at the top. I’m too lazy to rank other duos I can think of, so I’m just gonna list some and then we can discuss.
Loeb & Sale (Clinty’s standard of excellence)
Morrison & Quitely
Judd Winick & Pedro
CLAREMONT & Byrne
Bendis & Maleev
Brubaker & Lark
Brubaker & Phillips
Casey & Phillips
Azzarello & Risso
Bendis & Bagley
Ennis & Dillon
MacFarlane & Spawn
Johns & Kolins
Thomas & J. Buscema
Alan Moore & Anyone
Millar & Hitch
Willingham & Buckingham
DeMatteis & Giffen
Milligan & Allred
Pekar & Crumb
Baron & Rude
There bound to be lots more duos, so let’s toss a bunch of names into the pot and see who’s worth cooking!
Funny timing. There’s an article in this week’s Comic Shop News about the Jack Kirby and Joe Simon TPB that’s out now. There’s two headed mobster stories and some good old school craziness like that. I’m gonna check it out after I read a few more books.
I wonder if there should be a separation between one-time team-ups and frequent collaborators.
Like…is there a difference between Wolverine + Jubliee (a duo established over time and several stories) and Wolverine + Captain America (whose parings are infrequent but entertaining)? Should there be?
For example, Bendis + Maleev really just had Daredevil. A long run and a great run, granted, but it’s just really one book. Does that fact lower or improve their ranking when compared to like Loeb + Sale whose projects were short but numerous?
Some of these were like great single marathon runs, like with Claremont + Byrne (Uncanny X-Men), Bendis + Bagley (Ultimate Spider-Man), etc. And some are reoccuring duos that span over the course of multiple books. Morrison + Quitely (New X-Men, All-Star Superman, We3, Batman and Robin), Loeb + Sale (the Long Halloween series, Superman For All Seasons, Daredevil: Yellow and the Marvel: Colour series), or Lee + Kirby.
Are you given credit for establishing a great property and then maintaining excellence? Or should you get credit for being able to frequently hammer out fresh and quality stories over a number of different genres or properties? Like do you give credit to Bill Willingham to building such a great property filled with so many great characters and storylines from scratch in FAAABLES!!!1111? Or do you give credit to Grant Morrison for being able to essentially walk onto any book and fuck shit up like only Grant Morrison can? (JLA, New X-Men, Batman RIP, etc.) Is one better than the other?
(Actually Batman RIP is a bad example because I hate it. Let’s just use Geoff Johns instead with Flash and Green Lantern.)
Or is it still on a case by case basis? Like…
One time Uncanny X-Men duo > Azzarello + Risso (Jonny Double, 100 Bullets, Broken City) > One time Ultimate Spider-Man duo > Millar + Hitch (Authority and Ultimates), etc.?
Also, if Alan Moore is man that is able to singularly create great duos regardless of the artist attached…who is the corresponding artist that is able to singularly create great duos regardless of the writer attached?
I want to say John Cassaday, because Cassaday + Whedon and Cassaday + Ellis are so good…but Whedon + ____ and Ellis + ____ are notable absences up there on the list. (With the exception of Ellis + Hitch on the initial Authority run and possibly Ellis + Immonen for Nextwave.)
My personal feeling is that there should be no separation. In my world, I don’t separate my underground/alternative/indie/pretentious comic books from my superhero comics, so I feel no problem with keeping one-time team-ups and frequent partners. If we make a distinction between the two types of duos, it might set a precedent making even more distinctions or categories. And that would be just too much work.
Remember, Bendis & Maleev have worked on other comics together as well. They had a run on Sam & Twitch for T-Mac, and they’ve done various Marvel one-shots as well (Road to Civil War: Illuminati, Secret Invasion: Dark Reign). They are also teaming up for the upcoming Spider-Woman series.
But I understand your point. And to answer the question, I think that the number of collaborations should affect their rank, but it is only one of several factors. The other key factors should be the quality of their finished work, and… Hurm. Okay, so I guess I can only think of two factors that would affect their tiering on the list of Greatest Comic Book Duos: quality and quantity. This is definitely something that could be discussed more.
Aha! That’s an excellent point, my bub. Creativity could be another factor in determining rank. Creativity, in the sense of the duo collaborating on something of their own creation, should count for something. Now, I don’t think it would be completely fair to diss the corporate whores who have only teamed up for DC or Marvel superheroes, but it should be taken into account when our final reckoning is made.
For example, and this is obviously just a hypothetical (but completely my opinion) situation, Azzarello & Risso would rank much higher than, say, Johns & Kolins. As far as I’m aware, Johns & Kolins have teamed up to do Flash and Avengers - both runs which I greatly admire and cherish, but they were basically shepherding someone else’s creation. Shepherding someone else’s creation is something Azz & Risso have done skillfully as well (Jonny Double, Batman: Broken City), but obviously when you think of those two players you think of the Eisner-winning 100 Bullets, a series of their own creation with a true ending.
It’d be like debating whether Phil Jackson’s the greatest coach ever. (Just an example. I hate the Lakers so I would never acknowledge him as the greatest coach ever.) Did he push MJ and Shaq and Bryant over the top, or were they the ones who did most of the work? If Mike Dunleavy, Sr. coached Jordan for 10 years, would the Bulls have still won any championships? It’s almost impossible to judge, but judge we must. 'Tis our sworn duty.
I just thought of another possible factor we could use in determining rankings: how much a collaboration improves each individual’s talents. For example, I have yet to read any particularly good Willingham comics outside of FAAAAAAAAAAAABLES!!!111. (Believe me, I’ve tried.) Like… His Robin run with Rick Mays was disappointing, and Shadowpact with whoever the artists was (Tom Derenick?) was whack. But what if Buckingham had illustrated Willingham’s Robin run? Would it have been something amazing? (I’m not knocking on Rick Mays, either. He’s a good artist.) How does the synergy level of the duo affect the quality of their final products in relation to each individual’s own work apart from his partner?
Are the Rockets a better team with T-Mac and Yao or are they a better team when one of them is injured and out for the season?
I’m not sure, man. I don’t think one is inherently better than the other. These are all factors that should enter consideration when we rank 'em.
My feeble mind doesn’t fully comprehend this part. Do you mean to create some sort of righteous formula by which we can always arrive at the same singular answer?
I’m listening to LCD Soundsystem right now as I type this. Is that pretentious of me or what?
Anyway, if I were to think of the artist who is always able to create an amazing duo, I would have to say Sean Phillips.
Jenkins & Phillips [a seminal (“seminal” means “born of the semen”) run on Hellblazer, some Spider-Man comics]
Milligan & Phillips (various issues of Shade, the Changing Man; The Minx)
Casey & Phillips (Wildcats volume 2)
Kirkman & Phillips (Marvel Zombies, which is Kirkman’s best work for Marvel)
Brubaker & Phillips [Scene of the Crime (inked by Phillips), SLEEEEEEEEPER!!!11, CRIMINAAAAAAAAAAL!!!1!, Incognito]
Delano & Phillips (Hellblazer, Hell Eternal)
And probably a bunch of 2000 A.D. comics of Phillips’ that I’ve never read.
Strangely enough, Moore & Phillips have never been a team, as far as I know, despite both of them being connected to the British Invasion of comics. I think the closest they ever came was when Phillips drew Moore into an issue of Hellblazer.
If you’re referring to the list I made in my first post, that’s my bad, dude. I didn’t list every single duo I could think of. Otherwise the post would have been too long, and who the hell would read all that shit? I’m convinced no one else will read this post, though, other than you. I would expect your ego would behoove you to read my post, seeing as how I’ve addressed most of your paragraphs. I doubt anyone else will read this, though, so I’m gonna say that Sano is a poo poo head and he will not even realize it. I think we should also open this up to duos beyond just Writer & Artist. There ought to be Inker & Penciller duos, Artist & Colorist duos, Writer & Writer duos, and even Writer & Letterer duos (Gaiman & Klein come to mind). Again, I’d propose that we keep all the different types of duos in one giant “Greatest Comic Book Duos” list rather than make further distinctions. I’m open to debate, of course.
I was thinking of comic book creator duos. Comic book character duos is a whole 'nother category. I think you should give yourself an infraction for going off topic, Sano.
Nah 'cuz hero ones were mentioned before my post due to you not naming the thread properly (hey I have to read your long posts, no one else has to) and I already mentioned Joe Simon and Jack Kirby while plugging their book. I’m gonna talk to Wiz about letting me pos rep myself. :badboy:
I think Morrison and Quitely is the best creative duo ever. They really do bring out the best of each other, and all their work together goes from great-to-instant classic.
JLA Earth-2
All-Star Superman
We3
Flex Mentallo
E for Extinction/Riot at Xaviers arcs for New X-men
and now Batman and Robin is gonna be great(for the 6 issues he’s doing >_>)
IMO, nobody’s in the industry are better than those two.
Salvador Larroca and Chris Claremont
John Romita Jr. and Christopher Claremont
Mark Silvestri and Chris Claremont
Chris Claremont and Dave Cockrum ( R.I.P.)
If there was anything going on with Cosmic Powers in Marvel in the 90’s these two were involved. Infinity Gauntlet, Infinity War, Infinity Crusade, Thanos Quest, Silver Surfer.
They even worked together in DC comics on the Rann-Thanagar Holy War limited series. How did Marvel run these guys off?
