KissBlade, the problem here is that you don’t understand what to look for. I already pointed out that in Tokido’s other win in the same set, Justin’s Ammy landed a clean hit on Tokido’s Sentinel with 5 meters and XF2 available, and instead of killing Sentinel, he simply snapped him out. **That is a textbook example of Phoenix metagame.
**
If there was any one thing that strikes me the most about this match, is the sheer amount of stress put upon killing Phoenix.
Everytime Jwong is able to “get” phoenix there’s a huge uproar. More of an uproar than when either Wolv’s get taken out.
Could it be said that this vid is proof positive, with all the backings needed (tourney level play, two of the best players, grandfinals, point chars being equal, hell even one team with the best assist in the game) to counter any agrument, that Phoenix is the greatest/scariest character of this game?
From the games I have seen, Jwong still the best at Mahvel, but why no Phoenix, why Jwong ?
For EVO I’m almost sure it’s gonna be a Phoenix fest btw. Just saying.
thx for posting this…I did miss it. 
In English for people if tokido didn’t have phx as anchor Justin could’ve easily killed sent then 50/50 tokidos last slot( lets say it was doom) but the phx factor is you can blow all your meter trying to get her in and set up 50/50 situations on her come in and risk looking meter if she hard tags ( which I’ve seen her do successfuly many times ) or… take out the team hoping they don’t get 5 bars… and risk taking on dp… its like a metagame with in a metagame…inception
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Are people still talking about how broken phoenix is? If she’s that amazing, why didn’t amazing players like Viscant win more before? Players like Combofiend, Justin beat people like Viscant/Clockworks plenty of times before (Not to mention Viscant also has the best Wesker + A phoenix. Shouldn’t that mean = 9999999 win streaks?) Sure she’s insanely powerful in dark phoenix + Xfactor, stupid even, but at least there is SOME risk to her character. MVC2 was way more unbalanced than this.
- The other 2 characters can’t use meter
- Due to them not using meter, you will most likely survive/They give you another chance at snapbacking/killing
- Snapbacks , Phoenix only has 500K hp, one mixup or even a lvl 1 Xfactor chip and she’s dead.
There weren’t even that many phoenix’s on top until Tokido played her. And nah it was the right choice to play Tron, without Tron Justin prob. would not have won even one round. If you look at the early matches, Tokido kept getting hit by the Tron assist (He was prob. inexperienced against her). After he knew how to deal with her, his Wolverine won the last 3 matches. I hate Wolverine way more than Phoenix. Zero will most likely be ontop after a months too. That said Phoenix is BS, but she’s not impossible to beat.
Also each option breaks down into even deeper metagame. Mostly for option 2 if its your team vs just phx did you stall or did you rush and kill off the team ASAP ? Can you stall out phx or do you take on dp.
You can’t take on phx thinking ( I’m gonna just snap her in ) cause honestly this match up breaks down now that I think about it meta into meta into meta into meta…4 levels of things to think of and consider…
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They can use meter.
They will use meter if it means killing off an important member of your team.
She has 420k, and mixups aren’t guaranteed.
What? MvC2 is right here.
at the end of the day.
tokido, a player from jap land, TOOK american money.
even with 10 years of mvc. it could not help them.
which is weird cus doesnt experience count??
and i know you guys will say mvc2 isnt mvc3 but still.
that experience should defo carry over.
Both Wong and Tokido have experience attained from playing multiple games at very high levels.
It was pretty much a stalemate. When 2 people of equal skill played the match it was decided by the first hit attained through mashing H.
It also didn’t help that Wong and Tokido exchange Wolvie tech.
I mean Justin still reset the damn thing. It’s not like the nigga got flat out detroyed and his asshole is gaping. Cmon B. Same thing if the situation was reversed. Was it not close?
The game has been out for four months and you’re asking why she wasn’t winning on day 1?
Oh, and while we’re talking about results, hi there. Clockw0rk also got 2nd overall for WNF season 2.
- Tokido used meter plenty of times
- Tokido killed Justin’s Wolvie without using meter plenty of times
- Snapbacks cost meter and if you don’t kill Phoenix, you’ve handed her the match
In addition, with many top-tier characters, every snapback you perform is a character kill that you just gave away.
What the hell are you talking about? Viscant has been using Phoenix for far longer than Tokido, and he took 1st the same weekend as Tokido did.
Phoenix was one 3 tourney winning teams thus far. Just so happen they were within this month. Don’t be alarmed, She-Hulk and Wolverine still have more tourney wins on them.
I like the way you think. Id love to discuss fighting game theory with you sometime.
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i suppose. stilll tough. america had the advantage i think.
I think Chris G put up a better fight against Tokido than JWong to be honest. And ChrisG vs JWong was another amazing set. I think those matches were better than either of the Wong vs Tokido games.
I think the thing that made Tokido look so unstoppable was he wasn’t afraid to use meter and x-factor. I can’t think of any big american players who use wolverine and phoenix on the same team, and let both of them play their game. Recently Justin (and really any other wolverine player) have made it apparently that if wolverine gets a hit, you can blow x-factor at level 1 and get a free kill, and get a second character kill off a 50-50. That’s wolverines metagame. But I don’t think many people have combined it with phoenix because you blow x-factor and meter.
In walks Tokido with a phoenix team and wins half his games blowing xfactor and never sitting on 5 bars. Its a gauntlet. You need to decide, if you land that first hit on him, if you want to kill his wolverine and take out that offensive powerhouse, only to face off against lvl3 xfactor phoenix, or do you snap in phoenix, hope for a kill, and then have to deal with lvl2xfactor on wolverine, and have the same situation come up. Get hit, dead character, 50-50 for the match.
The idea of a phoenix team using meter like that is something you don’t see in America very often. I think the only phoenix player I’ve seen who will use meter is Viscant, and he does so very sparingly and only if he feels he can. Tokido had no fear.
And just in general, what was the reasoning behind justin not bringing out his she-hulk against Tokido at all? I don’t play she-hulk or phoenix, so I don’t know if there’s some kind of matchup disadvantage. Does she hulk not want to deal with a phoenix team? I mean he pulled out wolverine-storm-akuma and wolverine-ammy-tron, i was really surprised to not see team justin
Justin was intentionally handicapping himself by not using Phoenix (and has been).
It seems like there’s a contingent of Top Players that are intent on proving that Phoenix is Not A Big Deal instead of taking the obvious route of picking the best character*; I hope that this tournament has been a wake-up call.
*Either that, or this is the most epic case of STSFN in the history of fighting games
I said this in another thread, top player would be dominating this game if they still had the same mental they had for mvc2. Its like everyone has regressed, or out to prove they “can win with anyone”
If they were both mashing H it would probably have been a tech. Justin was apparently guessing air throw.