Yeah, but you’re basically agreeing with me… you’ve stopped using air-parry and are deciding to not even go into demon flip, because air parry sucks in demonflip resets.
C.hp into hado can work, but I wouldn’t say it’s any bit safer. No one is going to get hit by it, and I know I might ultra you on reaction to the fireball. There’s no high/low/crossup mixup in that setup, you’re just doing a point blank fireball (which is safe on block yes, and hopefully you guess right afterwards)
Ahh, we can only hope, can’t we? I too am quite sick of noobs being able to create a wall of DP inputs simply by wiggling the stick and mashing buttons. A lot of times it’s actually a GOOD IDEA to mash, because it’s so easy… you should be punished for mashing, not rewarded.
After a max distance sweep you are at perfect range for this, some characters, however, are to narrow to make the +frames on the fireball good enough that they can’t intterupt you with normals when they are standing.
Works wonders against people that “know” they can reverse your Dp’s with their dp’s for free damage. Generally just a mixup, and Gouken needs everyone he can get.
Edit:
More Gouken sweep needs to be used that move is just dumb … seriously -3 on block for a sweep deals 100 damage … besides cr. MP, st. MK it’s probably his best poke.
I started working doing backthrow>j. MP(1hit)>sweep. Man this combo is amazing. Deals 150 compared to 185 for RH tatsu, allows safe jump setup, ambiguious crossup that is safe to immediate reversals but unfortunately doesn’t leave you meaty enough if they do block to follow-up during the blockstun. An ambiguious crossup scenario is good enough for me lol.
Dude orignal poster if he has a midscreen frametrap god tell me what it is cuz looking at frame data only one i can find is cl. MP>f. Throw.
Can anyone find anything off demonflip throw, cuz honestly him not having any good followups off that really gimps his aggro game.
The corner reset I always use with gouken is EX Palm or b. Throw into corner and than EX fireballx1 or 2 than cr. FP into a demonflip guessing game or st. FP than when he lands make him guess between throw or attack.
yeah, it’s like when you talk about those moves that come out when you press one button. shit. those are so blah. fuck. why do people use certain ones at certain times. Why even think about a strategy with that?
Just want to know if anybody’s tried out Sephiroth73003’s “safe” demonflip divekick setups yet. I’m skeptical about the ability to beat out Ryu’s SRKs, but I WANT TO BELIEVE!
Divekick can always beat Ryu’s SRK, you just have to come down on top of his head with the kick (not too meaty) and you’ll beat it cleanly.
EX: forward throw, dash, wait a split, RH demon flip, divekick down so you kick him in the back of the head. Ryu can’t DP this. He’ll either whiff or get hit.
this stuff is golden. I have already implemented some of this in match vs ryu and it worked out beautifully, did the ex palm dash sweep and forward grab demon flip. unfortunetly, i still lost those matches, but it was cuase of other stuff, bad decisions, etc. and one time when the DP missed me i was like oh shit it worked, and fumbled my commands and just got ex rush punch without hitting fierce first and ryu blocked and destroyed. i would have killed him too when he missed.
there were some things i came across though. against viper and fei long doing the mk demon flip from the ex palm dash sweep doesnt seem to be working for me. with viper it trades or gets beat clean and agianst fei i just get beat. so, i changed it to hk flip instead and that did the trick. but the results are a little different. for fei all his fk’s miss except the lk version which loses and agaisnt viper if done properly she just loses. perhaps i am doing something wrong? another problem i ran into was your specific speeds for cammy and sagat, i couldnt get the mk flip to work either. so right now im using the hk flip and against its the same outcome as vs ryu but the lp TU sometimes trades. against cammy hk flip stuffs her if timed properly. is there some kind of tell on thier wake-up i can be looking for to get the mk version to work, or just do it as fast as you said, mash the kick button so the flip comes out ASAP and hope i did it right? off of the forward grab its the same story,i have to use hk flip instead of mk, however, it would appear that a forward step after the dash is needed to get the proper timing and spacing so you are not beat.
so again, seph, is there some kind of indicator i can watchout for so i can time things consistant and use the mk instead of the hk one where applicable. i wouldnt mind stuffing some of those moves for the added damage rather than having them miss me completely.
to elliot, so far ive gotten wiffage from the Fp DP from ryu and if he were to do the lp version i would be stuffing it. so, note, stuffs lp dp, mp, hp and ex dp wiff.
Part of Gouki’s vortex comes from the fact that he has sources of untechable knockdowns including cross-up tatsu into sweep, until the opponent guesses right. I’m not sure how gouken’s resets compare to gouki’s knockdowns, or how air parry can even compare to demon flip punch knockdown. Just because Gouken has more stamina (basically ryu/ken stamina iirc) doesn’t mean he’s ultimately safer.
As a Boxer player I generally don’t have trouble with Gouken and consider if a 6-4 matchup… until the other day when I was caught in the vortex for two rounds straight and simply taken to school and put in the corner with a dunce cap on. This is serious stuff IMO. With this, Gouken reaches the next level without a doubt. Great find guys.
We aren’t debating Gouki vs Gouken, or at least, trying not to. We are discussing techniques and setups for applying pressure and getting damage with Gouken as safely as possible.
BTW I’ve been dying to try this stuff out but just haven’t been able to turn on the old 360 yet.
I have no idea what you have been doing, but if it takes 100 paragraphs to describe a ‘strategy’ it is not a strategy at all, its just crap. Akuma’s ‘vortex’ strategy is also crap imo, its just a bunch of hard knock down / wake up mixups - which any character has, its just that akuma’s options are better/more varied. Also, akuma players have some fetish with giving things labels or multiple labels or mixing the use of japanese and english names for moves that it just goes with the whole mega-metro vibe surrounding akuma.
The times when gouken’s demon flip kick wins or loses or trades is so matchup and move specific (lp dp/lk flame kick/tu/thunder knuckles/etc/etc/etc vs lk/mk/hk demon flip) that it is basically a straight guessing game or where you can anticipate what your specific opponent is going to do based on his past move selection.
been workin on some of this stuff. having a game plan is really helping me make some more wins, rather than waiting for mistakes. mk flip right after sweep is actually pretty good, i was just never used to doing it directly after, so i wasn’t aware of how powerful it was. forward throw dash forward mk demon works similarly.
i have also been toying with this one as a mixup. forward throw , dash forward, hk demon flip, whiff demon throw. this leaves you right behind them as they stand, can get a throw in. ive been nailing ppl online with this, and i can loop certain characters against the AI with this. havent been hit out of it yet, but i have been teched or dashed back(by the AI). i think they would have to mash dp as you are crossing them, messing up their inputs, and that might be why im not getting reversed.
option selects. that stuff is new to me. i was trying to do one on the AI in training mode…sweep, jump in hp with ex tatsu buffered. if hp gets blocked or hits, no tatsu comes out. if it whiffs a reversal attack, ex tatsu comes out, which is not as fast as shoryuken, but does have invincibility. i can nail the AI with this one, but im not sure im getting the safe jump hp timing right, so i dont know if when i get nailed its because my timing is off due to being new to these option selects, or because this tactic simply doesnt work for gouken.
Noticeable improvement in my game since I started using
EX Dash punch > dash > Cr. rh and
back throw > cr. rh
i read something up here that said after a forward throw you can dash then mk flip dive kick and it’ll stuff most wakeups…if so, then i may be messing up the timing cause i get dp’d everytime (against ryu). is this a safe tactic or am i just doing it wrong?
I think after forward throw - dash, you have to follow the same rules as if you had swept. MK is for cammy and Sagat, RH is for the srk clones, only difference is RH timing is much tighter.
That’s what I gathered from re-reading anyway.
Anyone have a video of this stuff? I still haven’t been able to play a game of SF4 since this was posted and I’m hyper anxious to try it now, so just seeing it would help!
dam cant link,pic from google…fuick it guy just google STREET FIGHTER GOUKEN, ist the 4th PIC in the very 1st row on top ok thk, hope it comes out GDLK.
so what ya’ll think, sick tat huh. i had other pic like the one where its gouken and a very very young ryu,and gouken is towering over him. but since sf4 is the new crack, i thought the original SF4 main char pic would be nice. also the tattoo guy said this pic is more tattooABLE<< umm that a word lol. so yeah thats gonna be my very first tat. only cost me $20 dollars some $10 raffle ticket i bought,lucky me i bought 1 laast tickete at the very last minite. so i had a better chance to win, even thought is was only 3 ppl lol.
ill be sure to post a pick asap, getting it tomorrow, oh the top left corner over gouken, right shoulder il be also havbing the words. “Master GouKen” with a rock liek looked/decaying and crumble, like it been worn down over time. any ides b4 tomorrow guys, to make it better.
uh, this doesnt belong here dude. no offense, but post that shit elsewhere. no one in this forum cares. we are discussing goukens “vortex” not you gettng a tat. i could understand if you had any kind of discussion going on in here and you mentioned this, but coming in here with that in your first post not even contributing to what we are talking about here, WTF? so damn random.
