You can use both, but d + mk works for the reasons Mic Witt explained. The GF version is also more strict, but you lose overhead dive kick to gain more stun on dive kick, more cross up options, parry, grab, and slide (which doesn’t get used much since vanilla).
You will learn for certain match ups like Dee Jay and Guy you will jump in and use d+mk more… But others you can abuse it more.
So, did Dek die?
What was the result of his testing and what feedback did he give?
slide should break armor…or we should have less recovery…I’m probably one of the few still using it every fight w mixups 
@mic I want just another armorbreak …so change the property only of oh MP not number of hits.
if exflip could parry anytime before zenith that’d be cool.
I think its crunchtime …maybe we should ask for something can break him…no one really knows him as well as us…maybe like some weird counterhit frame advantage that gives us infinite…gets voted away but like wed still keep the lessened recovery frames…lol idk given what were NOT getting…maybe we should try to lobby 1 over the top request?
what could "quietly " break gouken?
less flip slide recovery , make it armor break…and cancel to Kongo from it…I know won’t break him but I want this and an exlpalm version or some invincible startup on lpalm…along w new movement
ahem, a command overhead normal that breaks armor (not 2 hit)? yeah, pretty unique… not sure if trolling…
When l chatted with him he said the stations were really crowded and that he’d find the change log.
There was a pretty bad winter storm that he had to travel through after NEC, I was going to go Sunday but it was pretty bad out there so I chilled out.
Try sending him a PM it usually goes to his phone.
I’m good fellas. I stated my take over in the Environment thread.
Sorry for the delay but there was a terrible snow storm in Philly on Sunday and they closed 95 and the airport. I didnt get home until Monday evening.
As an edit…I will be attending Defend the North in NY Jan. 10-12, APEX in NJ the week after and Winterbrawl in Philly in Feb. Everytime I go I will submit changes so they dont get overlooked.
Any chances that Gouken will be a getting additional changes in further builds? I just watched a Youtube vid of multiple players at NEC and one of them, an Adon player, had talked to Combofiend and was told there were more changes coming. That Ex-Tatsu change is good but, Gouken got jack else otherwise. Given the changes to some of the other characters, he’d become worse by default.
read my post…that’s why I’m saying …fuck it lets go over the top…lets put in some broken ass request…lets quietly break him with some crazy requests
They’ll probably be a few more changes but we still need to be reasonable when asking for any additional buffs if able. I think most of the crazy/broken requests were all made when they asked for feed back.
I don’t think anyone has a 1 hit non-special that breaks armor… but asking them to give him Akuma’s overhead or Oni’s far mk wouldn’t be too outlandish.
Now if you want to quietly break him, just ask for a dp or to give him the Makoto treatment and make Back Throw a command grab that absorbs 1 hit on EX… and just give him a different 3 frame throw for his current back throw.
I was thinking about this! You cannot tech a karakusa!
Our backthrow is 5f and you have 10f to tech if I’m not mistaken.
It already scales the damage, it would be nice to be 3f.
3 frames on back throw is too quick for all the options you get off of it. You’d be able to back throw and get 400+ damage on any moves 4+ frames… right now it has to be 6+ frame moves… That’s way too good lol… Even if the made it 3 frames they would probably lengthen the tech window even more, and we’d land it less than we do now.
But I wouldn’t complain, not unless I’m playing against Gouken and he back throws me.
If Gouken’s back throw operated as a command grab (Karakusa), they’d have to make the recovery similar to kara-kusa as well. That would be a great buff, just have to back throw a little less…
Keeping the startup unchanged but reducing the tech window to match a normal grab would be fine by me.
Both options make it very slow, either used to punish something or grab a slow ass normal. It’s too easy to tech.
Does the back throw startup frames also count to the tech window like a regular throw ? If you do standing throw/tech your tech window is longer because the 3 frame start up are added … this means if you do standing back throw with Gouken you increase your tech timing window by 5 frames !?
Nice … never thougth about this …
There’s a thread over at Capcom-Unity right now. Posted this in it.
http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/thread/view/7411/30155871/?sdb=1&post_num=3#536900063
Go over there and make some noise if you want to draw attention to the changes we really want to see implemented.
funny you posted this, I was gonna put my own email bombs thru just before I came here and saw your link…! neat…
I was actually waiting for one of you guys to make a thread. I think your opinions carry far more weight than my own, but I just could not take it any more. Gouken is getting no love.
word I threw out some…I really want Kongo 2 zones…hi to low Kongo was as good if not better than fadc since we also could ex to ex kongo and exkongo armor cancel with ease from ppp to kkk,…even with overlap on tatsu and kongos, kongoshin was clearly stronger with those non textbook techniques. I think we can deal with it given our experience with gouken nowadays.
said fuck it give us OH flip dive kick back,while I was at it…
2 hit focus kill CR MK
and all palm speed buff…
Why cr. mk?? it has piss range… and in most cases you an use cr. mk you can easily land lp palm…
St. mk like Oni’s wouldn’t be bad or if over head hit twice… not that cr. mk isn’t any good, it has it’s uses, but I tend to think if we want a 2 hit normal, we’d want something with range…
My request for Ultra sf
Denjin to stun an opponent even if blocked.
You just landed a combo now time for a Denjin. If they block it and their stun hits 1000 or ever then they are stunned after the whole Denjin is blocked. Ryu in third strike Denjin was unblock able because of the parry system so making it stun even if blocked would make sense in this game.
The Denjin doesn’t do the usual ultra damage because it’s purpose is to stun so this will rework that focus so we can land that huge combo and this Is how it worked with ryu in third strike.
Currently The Denjin eats at the stun when blocked but since the recovery isn’t as fast there is no available follow up to put the pressure to potentially stun your opponent. If you use the Denjin as a follow up after a knock down you just get chip damage and you wasted the ultra. So currently the Denjin is just a super fireball…
all fighters have some kind of way to avoid the Denjin even the red focus so the Denjin won’t be cheap but can add more mind games to goukens tools since he doesn’t have a lot of what other fighters have.
Oh one more
F. Mk hop kick that ryu has in some of the old games. This can add to Gouken pressure game and keep him close. Not cancel able like evil ryu just a simple normal to add to his arsenal.