In AE the Ultra 1 has to be real early and you just get the multi hit damage. Haven’t checked Ultra yet
Its done in the corner or you can fadc the ex palm mid screen, lots of meter used for mid screen.
My timing on 1 hit j.mp seems different. May be perception or the netcode difference, but different nonetheless.
It whiffs completely, even in the corner
Meaty OH chop linked to cr.lp xx lp.palm gets two snaps in a circle and a head bob from me. It’s about damn time we can make them worry about high/low on wake up.
I have not used red focus in play, only noticed in training that it crumples quicker. I’m not sure if it’s really worth 2 bars unless it gives you a win.
Mp.kongo seems to cover more area and I’ve used it a few times vs jump ins already. Maybe I just had the heaven’s eye at the moment and saw I was going to be hit in the chest…
DWU? I’d rather EXTAT! But seriously, in the rare times when I remembered I could do that, I guess it helped? I could see it helping a lot vs Adon and his BS instant HK overhead.
When attacking a DWU…I don’t know. It doesn’t seem, yet, to change my game plan much. I’m still flipping around like the ground is made of lava. It just feels like you add an OS like st.mp and you can cover most options. Wish OH chop was faster. I think DWU will limit the EXTAT OS. A lot of room for error.
Gouken still loses to wake up shenanigans from Blanka and Elf and Gief and I’m sure there’s quite a few more. Gief seems easier so far, though. It’s dat EXTAT! On the other hand, ABEL is a fucking wrecking ball. I feel that we might have lost ground here. He just seems more potent and more…mix-uppy…
St.lk hadoken cancel is a nice footsie trap at max range. Some of you were discussing using it with tatsu. WHY? What if they block? Footsies should be fairly safe but lead to good damage or opportunities for good damage…just lp or mp hado. If they are juggled out of a jump you can FADC and then you can tatsu them if you really wanted to.
Also, can’t believe how many people block a f.st.lk and then eat a sweep. Why is this STILL working? LOL!
Being that Ultra is new, I think more than a few players have switched characters for a spin. Don’t everyone go getting all starry eyed that they’re now winning more…at least, not yet. Players will get better or they will return to their mains and this game will get harder in the coming weeks/months ahead.
But Gouken is beginning to feel his youth restored.
Next update…give me that backdash I want!
Side note:
Not a Gouken change per se, but Sagat forums are PISSED that Gouken now wins the fireball war easily since Gat’s TS’ frame data was brutally nerfed. RIP The King!
Hahahahahah that post made my day!!!
If you combo into EX Red Focus and combo into U2 you can still get the juggle after U2. In the corner you can get some nice resets.
Some quick matchup thoughts after a few days. I don’t like the new way counterhits work for EVERYTHING. So even worse matchups vs. Dudley/Adon/Guile/Yun/Yang and heavy counterhitters whose buttons are MUCH better than ours.
Better/Even:
Cody
Akuma
Balrog
Ryu
Ken
Hakan
Rufus
Visibly Worse:
T-Hawk, WTF?!
Dhalsim, can’t put my finger on why
Dudley
Adon (as if it could get worse)
Guile
Abel
Zangief
Gen
I always thought that Abel is a really, really bad match up for Gouken. He can not really zone him, also footsies are risky due to random roll in TT and up close (offense) there always is the risk of EX TT. Gouken was pretty helpless vs. smart roll mix ups on hard kd (guessing front or cross up) in either TT, pokes or the launcher. I predicted the match up would become better, although not even, due to DWU and reliable reversal. I have not played against a competent USF4 Abel yet, but I would be surprised if the mu becomes even worse.
Cody, I am not so sure about, even though DWU also helps Gouken, in that particular match up, Gouken’s hard KD pressure was working quite well for him. On the ground I see advantages for Cody (safe 3fr punishes e.g. sweep and lp senku, anti fireball tools, good normals and pressure), so I’d predict the match in USF4 has the potential to become even worse.
Yun, got much worse. He stayed more or less the same, but his dmg/stun output noteworthy increased via MPs and RFA while he still gives a fuck on hard kd and continues his pressure set ups on soft KD while Gouken lost his safe kd pressure…
For Akuma, Balrog, Ryu, Ken, Hakan, Adon I can see the DWU having a positive impact on Gouken’s match up… (until new set ups are found).
undecided for the rest…
P.S. ninja edits…
Abel definitely got worst. EX TT come out really fast and can punish any fireball on reaction. However we now have a 3 frame lp which we can spam when he try to roll in on our slow footsies. On this match up we must keep pressuring Abel. Taking risk with EX Tatus and EX parry is mandatory in my opinion. Sure, if he block it we will eat quite a bit of damage, but we need Abel to fear our reversal instead of keep pressing button on us. Overall I don’t know what to do with this match up since Abel has the perfect options to punish everything we do on wake up. Our only saving grace is EX tatsu.
Ok… here’s a glimpse of what I found vs. delayed wake up.
I did this with Akuma b/c I’m still working on some of the finer details with Gouken (and I want to abuse it for a little while before everybody else jumps on it)… but you’ll see Akuma land meaty vs. DWU and Normal Wake Up. He also avoids the reversal and still can OS if the dive kick whiffs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D4WMkLkXqA&feature=youtu.be
thx, i will try it out.
Yeah, it pretty much the same way, just time the dive kick so it hits both high and low.
Shoto’s, Yun, Guy with EX, Seth (for now), Rufus with EX, need to be handled a different way… I working on a detailed version for Gouken, but this should point everybody in the right direction.
Once you guys start finding stuff, let me know… and shame on the persons who starts making these videos after seeing this and pose like they found it without giving credit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94FJ-AJywRc&feature=youtu.be
Iam, is that Mk flip?
Yeah.
I knew this was possible when I looked at the frame data for DWU a while back. Only Akuma and Gouken can do this afaik Dive kick is active until you hit the ground, just learn how to delay it. I’m still trying to learn how to match it up vs. the technical que.
The other dive kick characters don’t have enough hit stun and active frames to be much a threat from this, but they can do similar things (especially with making you whiff/bait).
Decapre may have a version of this as well… hmmmmm.
I was playing last night and was doing safe jump on dwu, I have to see the replays first and comment on it because it was laggy, even though it was the same timing, and I was laughing and he was wtf!!!
This sorta kinda works. However most character can dash forward if they don’t do DWU, and non-reversal DP it if they DWU.
I don’t think we should look for a timing that will cover both and focus on reacting to the Tech notice and try to predict whether they will do a DWU or not.
The beautiful thing, is if they try to dash forward they eat a combo, if you time it per the technical window. and delay it.
You can beat shoto reversals with it as well. You just land early and faux it… they reversal you win.
SOrry if this is a stupid question but what does “faux” mean?
Early dive kick. Not a safe jump. It’s a dive kick that is essentially just an empty jump used for mix up purposes