Go in training mode, put on counter hit and try it for yourself. Counter hit is actually +3fr instead of the normal buff +2fr, but it is still not the footsie tool it should be…
Gouken got nothing in the new build apparently.
I am jack’s complete lack of suprise
hopefully people will continue to not play him!!! siiiiiiick
Did something change about the updates that I’m not aware of, or are the buffs just not promising to you?
what he needs is less recovery on kongo>absorb, active should stay the same(seems to vary based on what attack its used against), or let us cancel into shit after the absorb subsides
What he got so far was nice, but not enough in my opinion. We barely ever get anything useful that when we get two things we’re like a starving dog getting thrown a bone.
EX tatsu is nice, 3 frame c.lp is nice, cr.mp should be +4 on hit. I set counterhits to on in training mode and it felt great to be +4 on hit with cr.mp.
Counters need fixing, I don’t care how they do it, but it shouldn’t be a double guessing game with high counter and medium counter. You already need to guess if they attack, no need to guess where the hitbox is going to be as well.
Tatsu is terrible as an anti-air, and that’s fine if they want to keep it that way, but give tatsu the same hitbox as EX tatsu. It won’t help as a reversal since it is throwable and only has upper body invincibility but at least it will make combos work instead of whiffing due to the way a character reels.
How long has everyone in this forum been asking just for his god damn moves to be fixed and to work? I was thinking about this today, can anyone remember another game where characters moves just don’t effing work like they are supposed to?
I mean you got tatsu whiffing on Oni when he has stars cause it hits so high, cr.hp xx tatsu makes tatsu whiff on so many people cause they reel? Fix that shit!
They said they would fix cl.mp > cr.hp xx EX palm to always combo after a jump in and they didn’t. So many things that need to be fixed that won’t unbalance matchups. It’s just disheartening.
Tatsu with the same hitbox as EX tatsu is strictly just for combos.
I mean there are tons of other little changes I think they should make like make Ultra 1 combo on everyone after an EX palm without FADC, change the hitbox so it hits above him to he stops flying under and around people. Reduce flip parry to 4 frame recovery like every other attack. Make cl.st.hk first hit do the majority of damage.
Ugh don’t get me started.
Sure, we still have tool that isn’t really fixed but I really don’t want to discount what Gouken did get. Ex Tatus is now one of the best if not the best reversal in the game, at the same time. Definitely one of the best Anti-air. For a character that have such quick recovery on fireball. It is going to be painful for any character to get in on him. I feel that he really can play his zoning game now. Everyone will be afraid to jump on Gouken.
Yes, Parry is not working well, but Gouken isn’t mean to be so close against them anyway. It is more of a bonus tool then a main tool. Palm combo still picky, but a lot of other characters have opponent specific combo too.
ex tatsu still misses when people walk under it as first hit misses then 2nd hit pops em but lets them stay standing
^ I think it’s b/c only the first hit locks on. Which is kinda fair… I guess… but I’m kind of a black sheep around here b/c given his buffs and the fact that you can’t safe jump, fairly quick recovery, or cross it up… I think 3 zone kongo is fair too…
This is what I mean by being grateful for whatever you get. We’ve been screwed over so much that you’re like holy shit! I got stuff that is normal for half the cast! I should be ridiculously amazed and not dare ask for more. You finally got a hit confirm from jabs (still not from a low hit), you finally got a combo from a low attack (c.mp fireball). and you got a reversal on wakeup that is only good with three bars.
They even through in a compensation nerf just for good measure.
I want tatsus to combo without having to worry about whether a character is reeling this way or that and I was counters back to two zones. The aspect of counters that I want fixed (jump ins) has nothing to do with someone getting close or not, On the ground MP and LP work fine for everything just about. HP and MP against jump ins is just stupid.
It is also possible to be disillusioned by what Gouken has lacked in the past so much that you ignore what he has. There are a lot of really strong things about Gouken (zoning, ridiculous max damage, high stun, corner pressure and reset game, other stuff). Top tier characters are all too strong and are all getting nerfed because they’re too strong. Comparing Gouken to what they have isn’t really fair.
Gouken is receiving a lot of tools in Ultra that he straight up did not have access to before. Light punch combos, general footsies moves, and good reversals are something other characters take for granted, but they’re something Gouken straight-up doesn’t have that are just being added on top of everything else he has. The reason he’s not very good at the moment is because he doesn’t have access to those things specifically. Adding those things to him is going to be a bigger deal in practice than I think people here realize. I haven’t been playing street fighter very long, but I’ve got a background in competitive gaming and game development spanning almost 10 years. Players get disillusioned by the tools they have because they aren’t doing the job and don’t often realize how even the smallest changes can have rippling repercussions. Gouken is IMO being changed in Ultra a lot more than most characters because he’s not getting mere frame data tweaks or even additional options, he’s gaining baseline tools and options and he already arguably functioned before.
It’s okay to be skeptical (good, in fact, gotta keep game developers honest) but try to be objective. You won’t have to compete with nearly as much bullshit in Ultra, and Gouken’s getting numerous tools on top of that. Things are looking pretty good for him compared to a lot of characters right now.
I agree, but I am not asking for anymore new tools, I’m asking for fixes they have ignored for far too long. Why in the WORLD does cr.hp xx tatsu whiff on a standing person? Cause Capcom was lazy when they made this game. They put wire frame hurt boxes on people when they are not doing a move so when an opponent bends over from a punch to the stomach his entire hurt box changes.
In previous games you were a square and you stayed a square regardless of what you were doing. It’s lazy. It makes tatsu whiff when it shouldn’t. The lazy fix is to give it the ability to hit low and it won;t even change anything other than to make it combo on everyone instead of just certain people.
I don’t think anyone has ever said counter was too strong. Ever. I will fight for a return to two zones since HP counter does not serve the intended purpose. If they stay at three they need to classify “aerial attacks” and have HP counter work ONLY against those but also against ALL of those. That would be totally fine for me. I’ll give you one guess as to whether they would ever do that. The lazy fix would be to just go back to two zones when counters worked against a jump in attack all the time.
Also, fun fact. Barrels on the bonus stage break armor and will blow your shit up if you try to counter them. Poor Gouken. Barrels getting the best of him.
LOL @reipin trying to battle falling barrels with kongo! That made me smile. Much love.
I’ve seen weird things happen in this game so someone with a mod version can test, but cl. st. mp is +4 on block and cr. lp is changing to 3 frame start up, so that should be a 2 frame link a tight block string frame data wise.
Speaking of mod’s. I finally bought PC version of AE and I have it running on Parallels on MAC, but I can’t get it to work with my controller for the life of me.
Those of you playing on PC, is there a certain controller set up you are using??? I got the Logitech Rumble Pad 2 controller… not sure if that matters or not.
Ultra Combo Double
Allows characters the ability to use both Ultra simultaneously
Characters either do 75% damage or 60% damage of their normal Ultra damage
Character classified under the 60% damage are: Zangief, Cammy, Fei Long, T.Hawk, Makoto, Hakan, Dhalsim, Rose, Akuma, E.Honda, and Hugo
Characters classified under the 75% damage are: All remaining characters
the full change log mentions that Gouken will have 75% damage on his Ultra Double. Sounds pretty good to me, maybe the new go to Ultra option?
If you can’t do it over options use a Xbox Pad Emulator like x360ce:http://code.google.com/p/x360ce/
At first glance, it seemed like a good deal, given that (AFAIK) Ultra 2 won’t lose its stun. That means you could choose between damage and stun mid-match… however…
I did some quick napkin math, and 75% of full Ultra 1 damage is ~380, which is around the same damage as a full level 2 uncharged Ultra, and you can get into Ultra 2 in every single way you can get into Ultra 1, so I don’t really see how UCD is superior to picking Ultra 2 straight out. Ultra 1 doesn’t offer any additional significant utility AFAIK.
Solely judging on DMG is not sufficient here, you need to judge on situations, utility and threat of the individual Ultras in the individual match ups, i.e. covering more of the opp’s options respectively complementing your own options. Backthrow in double Ultra1 (75%) will do more damage than double Ultra2 but is on the same level as regular Ultra2 charge level 2 and you still maintain the threat of anti fireball Ultra 2 vs Sagat. So you could have a bit of both worlds. Same for the match ups in which U1 is the better choice, e.g. Balrog and Abel. U1 effectively limits the options of dash punch pressure or turn punch thru fireballs for Balrog, but having both Ultras still give you the utility of u2. So Balrog is at risk when dash/turn punching (u1), but also when jumping on an angled fireball (u2). Sounds pretty good to me even at decreased damage …
And the stun is only at 75% as well btw…
Ya, I’m not seeing how UW is ever a good choice for gouken.
The only reason to use U1 is to extract maximum damage from slippery characters. I don’t know of any situations that a U1 can punish but a U2 cannot, so if the max damage is reduced to U2 levels, then there’s no reason to pick U1.
Seems pretty straight forward to me.