Nah… you def. have a Rush Down Gouken. Gouken isn’t Rush-Down like Ken is for example, but he has ways to lock you down and can instantly turn the pressure on, and if you aren’t careful he will punish you HARD. I think you do a great job of picking your spots, forcing errors, and creating opportunities for jump ins. And EX DF is damn near instant offense if you use it correctly, and you utilize that with the best of them.
You don’t have the typical " I will Zone, Block, Turtle, and wait for you to make a mistake Gouken" You definitely press the envelope which is very good to see.
Most of the goukens I fight don’t rely to heavily on his zoning game for to long too many characters have ways around and thru hado games even absorbing them is something everyone can do. I think gouken can best be described as rush lockdown. He wants to lock you down make you make a mistake whether it be fb/df games from distances, bait and punish antics, or block string, reset and counter in your face aggression.
ya, rush lockdown sounds good. Playing Gouken as a turtle will just get you spammed to death. From my perspective you have to use and stay on a mindfull offense in a match because the risk/reward during defense is highly stacked against you. Block’n’Tech is really the best bet there. I think too many new gouken players don’t mind being on defense as they feel awesome when they get the random counter to save them. I definitely try to play gouken more like a snake hunting prey. trap them with fairly safe offense into doing something risky and then STRIKE. Of course that doesn’t work against some of the cast, like balrog, blanka, or cammy, where a more conservative approach is required. But that’s definitely what I WANT to be doing.
Everyone can also be cr. roundhouse to vortex if they do it from up too close, or they will have to do something risky to avoid it. It some times fucks people up with when you start dashing after it to rush grab or kongo LOL, this is when the kara grab is very useful.
Something I’ve been thinking about is playing like I’ve never played before, on some IN YOUR FACE shit.
For Example:
Just dash or walk the hell in and Kongo (EX preferably) the incoming poke. It’s a 50/50 they might poke it, they might not. Ahhh-Haaaa… but you can also just dash in and grab them to mix it up if they don’t have an invincible start up ready then you are good to go for a grab, depending on if you poked. But what if you FA’ed ?? But what if you blocked the reversal srk, cannon spike, or electricity? Now you have a punish opportunity. What if you blocked period, and you was ready for the tech if neccessary… GOOD, that’s something one needs to be doing any damn way.
Fuck it… I’m gonna play a little differently most of the new shit I seen looks like a bunch of damn button mashing. Gimme an EX Kongo and let’s go.
Are you talking about dashing in after goukens sweep or dashing after block stun from someone else’s sweep? I think either way there is just to many frames of gouken not being able to do anything from dashing in that situation to be able to throw something out that’s active fast enough besides a Kongo or throw and if they tech the throw now they are in goukens gray area based on the fact gouken doesn’t have a high pressure jab; ie 4 frames; and if you Kongo and they do nothing you lose. Maybe once in a match might pay off but I don’t know if its something I would do. It’d be nice if gouken could cancel his sweep with either a move like Abel or fadc like guile. On a slight off note I pray that some time or another df sweep could fadc heh.
Edit. Guess actually dashing in from block stun would be good as long as they are still in recovery but wouldn’t the dash still negate any plus frames? Think a sweep in return would work better. Now its a hard knockdown and gouken can begin his wake up game.
Edit: It’s 2 situations where I’m talking about dashing in.
The first: The opponent is dashing in towards you and absorbing fireballs. There are a few things I do to get around this, all of this will determine how close they are to Gouken so as always spacing is key.
Throw the fireball they absorb or block:
-Frame trap with safe Palm
-Frame trap with EX Demon
-If they are up close and don’t have srk, use cr. roundhouse (even if it’s blocked it will push them waaay back so you can set up further zoning)
-follow up with a lk/mk df. I’ve been switching the strengths up to give a the sense of me being un predictable to make them hesitate a little, or they end up getting tagged by a dive kick (if it’s blocked then do you o.s. - block string - hit confirm shit) or use EX to auto track that ass. I also use a light or medium just outside of range before they do anything to fish for an air parry if the choose to jump and AA or just dive kick outta the damn thing
-Throw your fb and charge your FA and dash in or out depending on what you want to do. If they absorb the fireball and dash forward they will walk into a FA works on Guile really good and when your opponent likes to follow a FADC’d fireball.
-If they are just waiting to absorb and get in without being too risky, start charging your hado for 2 hits, or Use the EX verison and then frame trap them to go to work.
The second Part: Gouken dashing in
-Dash in > Kongo
-Dash in > throw or kara throw
-Dash in > block if you think they will try to reverse
-Dash in > FA (and decide from there)
-Dash in > EX DF
-Dash in > cr. Roundhouse >>> Vortex!!!
Goukens Fireball and DFK have the best block stun outta all of his moves, AND we don’t charge it enough to discourage rush ins and focus absorbs. All you really need is a blocked hado and you can be instantly on that ass with DF. I don’t wanna deviate from my game plan, just add a little something in to dis-encourage the walk up and get Gouken strategy.
His rushdown revolves around pushback from fireballs. Using an FADC to chase a cr.fierce xx jab gouhadouken and do another (or other blockstring) is enough to push them about half the screen, on block. It depends on whether you value the setup or saving meter for damage that you might not get to inflict.
That’s true as well, Goukens best poke is his fireball but as you say, FADC’ing after Hado really depends if you want to save the meter or not, but if you got it going then why the hell not? It’s very good to be unpredictable from time to time. I had someone quit on me yesterday b/c I FADC’d a HP Hado and caught them with Hp Hado FADC > EX FB > mp palm lol Edit: I think it was Taunt #9 afterwards that really did it.
Indeed, Taunt #9 + Color 7 (or 10 for zombie-ness) = GDLK Gouken
On a side note, after a successful Stun, do you prefer a FA > w/e, or do you use LP Hado full charge > cs.HP > Tatsu/Palm/EX Palm? I personally use the latter, because it gives more damage from scalling.
If in the corner, I depends on if I have enough time to charge my hado and how much energy they have left. I only use tatsu to finish people off or when I want to start my zoning game. Tatsu in the corner is a definite no no. I’m not even sure if you can full lp hado to cr. fp mid screen and have it work on every character so I don’t even bother with it not unless I’m in the corner.
If I can’t finish them off with tatsu then I always resort to finding a way to put them in hard knock down mainly by ending with cr. round house or using a reset (esp. in the corner) Sometimes it’s best to take the hard knock down and less damage for the set up opportunity vs. the soft knock down and more damage for little to no set up opportunity.
You make very good points, I’ll keep in mind setup opportunites more often. I also know full well how dangerous Tatsu in the corner is, if the opponent quick recovers, that’s pretty much a free combo/Ultra for them…
Yup. But everyone plays differently so I dunno. Gouken is the MOST mis-understood character on the game… and contrary to what you hear, if you can block and tech he DOESN’T have Glaring BAD match ups. Given the changes (nerfs for Sagat, Gief, and Ryu) that are coming in Super it can only benefit him overall… though I did read somewhere that demon flip kick can be blocked high or low in Super… that’s some bullshit.
Let’s not be silly here we are talking about a general rule of thumb… and blocking is a good tool against Gief just like everybody else. The Giefs I have lost to were just simply better than me. Gouken has the tools to win that match up, you have to work for it but so does he. The major problem with that match up is when Gouken get’s knocked down and he can’t quick rise. What do you do??? If you have an EX DF you can get up, you can kongo the infamous cross up, and if he delays it or neutral jumps you have standing hk. Full screen he has to get around the fireball game and he HAS to do something risky to get in close to Gouken period. Cr. FP is great and his green hand is punishable even when it hits, not to mention he has a hard time dealing with Neutral jumps b/c it can prevent almost all of his lead in options, (it punishes green hand, punishes standard jump in, and you can punish lariat as well). It’s possible for Gief to spam lks and lps > green hand combo but that’s what you have kongo for) Also if he lariats full screen to evade a fb, you can use df slide to trip out his feet from under him. From mid screen just dash up and sweep. Other than that, it’s a pretty boring match b/c everybody is waiting to see who makes the first mistake. If you’ve conditioned him with dive kick he’s also free for a demon flip grab on wake up or after the FB frame trap… AND you can run from his ass with Tatsu and start the zoning > instant pressure antics again. Most of all, if you can block you can punish most of his moves except command grab. Imagine that.