Don’t worry, its very difficult for Guy to time that attack.
i went into the training mode and set guy to do the unduckable ex bushin grab.
the options that worked the best against it were jump back mp and c.lp.
jump back mp works against late timed ex bushin grabs too.
c.lp is a lot harder to time.
ex tatsu whiffs, ultra whiffs, backdash gets hit by the elbow, ex df avoids the trap but is punishable, jab palm avoids the trap but is punishable, all other palms get grabbed, all other tatsus get grabbed.
super punishes it though.
overall, jump back mp seems to be the answer.
^ Did you try Standing close hard kick??? It may work since c. lp works and the start ups are the same.
If you do a crouching attack right as you wake up the uncrouchable setups don’t work. This is probably why cr.lp works. I would try cr.hp or cr.mk and see if those work. I dunno if Raun already tried those already though. Worst case scenario is that you both whiff probably. The problem is that it basically has to be real reversal timing because you can’t buffer a normal like you can a special.
Credit to UltraDavid for telling me about this.
yeah, i tried those.
the reversal timing is not reliable enough and they don’t strike.
you get hit by the elbow.
c.lp works because the second c.lp counter hits the elbow.
holding up back and mashing mp worked mindlessly, so i can’t see a better option than that.
Wow I am so taking notes lol. Man I hate GUY! Thank you guys for shared information and i hope this helps me beat my friend.
I really wish i could upload vids
please help to update this video to vs.Rufus vids. It better matches what the strategies said about more fireballs.
[media=youtube]ORoCgQsJknk]YouTube - viperRX188 [Gouken] vs chobixinco [Rufus[/media]
please help to update this video to vs.Rufus vids. It better matches what the strategies said about more fireballs.
[media=youtube]ORoCgQsJknk]YouTube - viperRX188 [Gouken] vs chobixinco [Rufus[/media]
I will try to go through this thread and the video thread later today and add anything new to the match ups and videos.
Man this is a great thread, wish more character forums had a thread like this.
Just as a minor addition to the Adon match-up, mp hado (and ex) will beat out Adon’s U1 clean, Adon cannot counter it.
it depends on where adon is when he does the u1 on reaction to the mp fireball.
if he is 1/2 screen from you, he will jump the mp ball and kill you.
I think it has to be closer than 1/2 screen. I knocked Adon out of U1 last night and he was pretty close. In any event I’ve done it quite a few times, don’t ever really recall Adon catching me with an U1 counter to a mp fireball.
BTW your av is epic
What’s the general strategy against Zangief?
I think the match-up tiering has it rated as a tie between Gouken and Zangief.
It’s more like 2-8 in Zangief’s favor, if you ask me.
His green hand has ridiculous reach, and so does his SPD.
Any time Gouken tries to escape with the sorry-ass EX flip, Zangief has the easiest and most brainless response to it every single time that’s every Zangief-players’ first reaction to any danger to boot: of course I’m talking about the lariat.
EX flip is more-so out of the question against Zangief because of his lariat. That leaves you with the kongoshin counter as a way out.
Fishing for parries against a grappler, with excessive range on his grab-specials, is hardly a good idea.
Does that leave you with nothing but footsies? Well, here’s the icing on the cake: Zangief is faster than Gouken!
Not to mention that Gouken’s throw+Ultra does less damage than Zangief’s Ultra throw.
Frickin’ brilliant!
Let’s discuss.
I incidentally played a Zangief player today, and while zoning usually worked for the first half of every match, it always ended up with him getting in and taking the win.
Is the match-up improved in SSF4? I’m playing vanilla.
-Neutral jump can give you max punish on Green Hand
-Be careful of using palm bnb’s if not spaced properly he can grab you in between hit frames
-If he lariats from full screen to avoid fireball, GF sweep him while he is spinning, you can also palm or sweep him if he’s close
-Cr. fp ~ lp hado and cr. mp ~ lp hado can stop him from just walking in
-If he lands a SPD and is mid screen, jump off the ground using j. mp and if you are jumping away you can still tag him for trying to jump in.
-Stand your ground, don’t let him back you into the corner
-Use air tatsu to get away from him
-You can max punish green hand on block
-from full screen throw hado’s to zone him, if you are in green hand range then use st. mp as a bait
-kongo his cross ups
-don’t stand still, control the spacing
-He can be safe jumped
-since he’s so big, he can’t do shit about mp hado but use green hand or focus absorb to get close. Bait it and punish his ass.
-every now and then, suprise him with a lp palm after a blocked hado
-if you jump in on him make sure you hit deep, if you happen to hit him in the chest area or above then you will want to neutral jump to escape and punish the command grab
-Beware of his neutral jump head butt. If he lands 2 of those you will be dizzy.
-He has to get in close to do anything cr. fp works for anti air as well as a great ground poke
-on your jump in’s or jump aways keep a buffered Shin Sho just in case he tries to green hand to get close
-GF parry is useless.
-back dash a lot. It’s better to eat the last hit of the green hand and tech the knock down vs. eating a SPD and you are in the corner.
*And he does less damage in Super and the lariat doesn’t hit low after the first hit anymore. His angled jump doesn’t go as far anymore so it’s easier to cr. fp him now.
-dup post
On another note… If Sagat uses U2, you will have to wait until he is in the recovery stage before you can connect full EX Palm b/c of his hit box while throwing the U2.
So basically, if you want to palm through you need use a regular palm instead of EX Palm b/c the second hit of EX Palm will whiff and you can be punished on your recovery. If you have the EX, then you’d just be better of using it to land a EX GF dive kick combo instead of trying to palm through with EX Palm, all of the other palms work fine.
You can also use GF *(EX For meaty) and either whiff using parry or grab and then punish with Ultra if you have it handy.
Uhh doesn’t EX SPD beat safe jumps?
Really if you can predict a tick SPD Gouken can take 35-40% of Gief’s life for it easy. But Zangief’s blockstrings kinda suck because he can’t chain anything. Mix it up between backdashing, jumping, and kongo and Zangief’s mixups aren’t quite as scary.
Also he can’t duck EX tatsu so I like to throw it out there every once in a while.
Also if you hit Sagat from behind during U2 EX Palm combos fine.
yeah… EX SPD aside. You have to delay that to hit him in the head so you can beat lariat if he tries, it often trades so I don’t do it that much. GF grab also beat’s the EX SPD so he needs to be careful. If he has no EX bar, I try to surprise rush him down every now and then. His only offensive option on wake up with out EX SPD or U2 is lariat, and dive kick can stuff it.
good info!
beware Zangief players who like to backdash when they wake up, if you happens to be doing dive kick, it will whiff and you eat SPD. If you are doing GF throw, Zangief backdash will make it whiff as well.
If none of your strats works, try empty jump in -> EX GF
As Kikuichimonji said above, he can’t duck EX tatsu, but make sure he’s in front of you while doing it, and also make sure you have 3 EX bars so to FADC.
Kongo is useful, keep your spacing by zoning all game. Then you can bait for jump ins. If you happen to be waking up and being cross over. Watch carefully Zangief’s doing D+HP (wait until the latest movement before you Kongo, do not do Kongo early). If he does nothing (which you will actually see his fat ass landing), immediately jump back JUMP BACK! If you got balls, just straight jump and max punish his whiffed throws.