Gouken Match-ups and Character Specifics

[real_devastator]

Anyone have tips for fighting Sakura?

I know there is already some info on the fist page, but it is not very in-depth.

Most Sakura’s I beat easily, but I have this one opponent who destroys me with a rush down Sakura.

Any help is appreciated.

I am no good in analysing matchup… But maybe this video will help a bit:

[media=youtube]IdOul3hhd9A[/media]

[artificeren]

Anyone have tips for fighting Sakura?

I know there is already some info on the fist page, but it is not very in-depth.

Most Sakura’s I beat easily, but I have this one opponent who destroys me with a rush down Sakura.

Any help is appreciated.

You can check out these 3 video’s raunwynn made for vanilla.
[media=youtube]ZMJacUjWegM[/media]

Her rushdown is fairly safe. My best advice is:

1. Try not to let her get into her tatsu rushdown spacing to start with. Try to keep her out of that zone.
2. When she eventually does get there, BE PATIENT. Don’t just throw shit out at every tiny opening during the rushdown. Block and watch her. Figure out what the player likes to do. Well timed ex flips, kongos, and backdashes definitely help to relieve the pressure.
3. crossups and deep flipkicks are really nice. If she’s giving you uppercut AAs, a flip parry throw punish can really make her think twice about wanting to continue that line of thinking.
4. try to keep your offense going for as long as you can. If you have the choice between max punish or the hard knockdown leading to more offense, take the hard knockdown. If you have the choice between fireball chip or flipkick to more offense, use the flipkick.

I can’t think of much more off the top of my head.

[viperRX188]

nice tips!

[darkknight1078]

vs Adon:-

I don’t know what tier this character is in. But he can rush down Gouken so quick if you don’t have the right zoning, reaction. These two things are what I think most matter this matchup.

• his jumps are quick, somewhat similar to Blanka; meaning when you are being knocked down, Adon can cross you up easily, suggest block the cross up then block low, rather than Kongo the cross up because they can often empty jump and throw you.
• he got 2 special moves which armor break, and I have a solution and video right below:-

-> Jaguar Kick <- frankly one of the best move in the game (next to Dictator’s LK scissors kick)
-> Jaguar Tooth <- do not use EX Tatsu, because if Adon baits you and do a LK / MK version, then you are screwed

Solution: against Jaguar Kick (credits to killakelly), you can do st.far MK to beat out of them when they keep looping this move. Do this during the start of their move so the st.MK will beat it clean. It will trade if you do it too late. But If you are quick enough, do LK tatsu and it will win everytime. You have to be smart not to do Kongo accidentally because you are at a block stance before you input the tatsu command. Updated-> you can do st.close HK to beat HK Jaguar Tooth, one thing I have a mistake to do it too early and the far HK will come out. Practice! One more, early jump HP, HK, LK will beat the move clean as well!
Video Link: [media=youtube]cODspogwbU8[/media]

Solution: against normal HK Jaguar Tooth (credits to killakelly and HW597), you can use 3 normals to beat it. The st.far HP, cr.HP, and st.far MK; The best I found is actually st.far HP, his palm needs to come out early (when you saw the Jaguar Tooth coming towards you). But against EX Jaguar Tooth, you can only use cr.HP or st.HP, you hit either one of these when Adon touches the WALL since he is real quick this time.
Video Link: [media=youtube]08V_gpqFcaQ[/media]

• Adon has a straight jump HK similar to Chun Li, long active frames, and they can do so as an immediate overhead; feel free to Kongo because the long active frames give you an advantage (like against Guy’s elbow drop)
• his wakeup Rising Jaguar has following properties make sure you have them in your head
  -> LK Rising Jaguar startup 4 frames, 1-5 frames invincible against physical attack and projectiles
  -> MK Rising Jaguar startup 5 frames, 1-6 frames invincible against physical attack and projectiles, 1-5 frames invicible to throws
  -> HK Rising Jaguar startup 5 frames, 1-6 frames invincible against everything
  -> EX Rising Jaguar startup 5 frames, 1-8 frames invincible against everything
• just block his st.far HK, 2 hits, suggest to move away of that range because Adon is best at 1 to 2 character spacing with Gouken.
• When he has Ultra 1, HE IS BAITING FOR FIREBALL, he will keep walking forward and WANTING YOU TO DO FIREBALL, don’t unless you are at max range
• I found Gouken Flip throw is very good against Adon, or you can even do one at start of round occasionally; Make your opponent guess this time you are not running away!
• same as Ken, some Adon will do tick n throw all day long, so get your cr.LP/cr.LK ready and push them away.
• fireball is GOOD, all 3 versions, but whenever Adon has EX bar, he has reaction to do the EX Jaguar Kick to get through them and knock you down.
• cross up is good against Adon, because they cannot mash double-sided Rising Jaguar, as one of the 623 command is the Jaguar Kick move.
• st. far HK is very good against Adon, because every special move they are having a slow startup (except Rising Jaguar), and your st.HK can beat/counter/stuff them during their startup.
• occasional LP palm is okay.
• if you happen to block his HK/EX Jaguar Tooth, it is like blocking a scissors kick. (although it is -2 for Adon) so don’t do anything except cr.LP or jump back.:clown:

Thanks bunch for this, this really helped alot.

[ariez]

Can somone explain goukens piano technique

[Raunwynn]

jump back roundhouse solves a lot of problems with adon, but i have some serious trouble against that character now that people can use him.
most of my trouble with him is his close game game, similar to cammy.
if you can get a jump in > backthrow or a jump in > baited jaguar knee to hp > ex palm, you can win.
you can also take advantage of adon’s confidence in his fast wakeup.
i have noticed that most adon players dont block on wakeup because they can jump or dash earlier than the rest of the cast.
you can also counter his aerial jaguar kick, so watch for that from far jumps.
you have to watch out for ex jag kick and u1 if you want to throw balls.

[darkknight1078]

jump back roundhouse solves a lot of problems with adon, but i have some serious trouble against that character now that people can use him.
most of my trouble with him is his close game game, similar to cammy.
if you can get a jump in > backthrow or a jump in > baited jaguar knee to hp > ex palm, you can win.
you can also take advantage of adon’s confidence in his fast wakeup.
i have noticed that most adon players dont block on wakeup because they can jump or dash earlier than the rest of the cast.
you can also counter his aerial jaguar kick, so watch for that from far jumps.
you have to watch out for ex jag kick and u1 if you want to throw balls.

You are right about that, Most Adon players are getting smarter, I really try to keep a distance from them, and get them to do their jaguar tooth(off the wall move) for that hp punish. Baiting the jaguar kick is great, but I guess since my training partner is Shiine, I guess I just have to get a bit smarter to bait him.

[Raunwynn]

juri’s pinwheel is driving me bonkers.
anybody have any good ideas concerning that move?

[iamthatiam]

^ She has some weird delay when she lands from it and you can cr. roundhouse her afterwards before she can block. I’m assuming you can cr. fp her at the same point since the start up is the same on cr. roundhouse / fp.

I normally go for the cr. roundhouse and don’t let her ass up after that. It’s possible for her to escape your follow up jump ins with her counter but, if you empty in and she does it, it’s light’s out for her.

[viperRX188]

be careful though when Gouken is not blocking the pinwheel from point blank, because if Juri push you too far (the edge of pinwheel is hitting Gouken). Then even sweep cannot counter.

Some Juri like to mind fxxk us, by doing the pinwheel lk, hk, EX version and the moment you found out and try to counter, you have the wrong timing. But the EX pinwheel is the MOST counterable.

[Raunwynn]

so treat it like bison’s scissors?
an unfortunate fact of life!

[viperRX188]

speaking of his scissors kick, recently I saw Bullcat video against some good Dictators. Bullcat gets to his comfort zone (good for MK gouken flip), and bait for scissors, by using straight jump HP. By sticking his HP out, he gets max punish. This is very good because when Gouken is in the air, Dictator can only use psycho crusher to win. And please note that Gouken straight jump HP has mad priority against ground /air.

[iamthatiam]

so treat it like bison’s scissors?
an unfortunate fact of life!

I’d say treat it like Rose’s slide moreso than Bison’s Scissors.

[takinflight]

I’d say treat it like Rose’s slide moreso than Bison’s Scissors.

By this do you mean don’t try to attack from the top rather wait for the sweep opening underneath?

[iamthatiam]

By this do you mean don’t try to attack from the top rather wait for the sweep opening underneath?

Yeah. It has the same properties as doing a “safe” palm. Only a handful of characters can punish it when she spaces it out properly b/c of the distance and most moves that has the range to punish don’t have the frame start up to attack it quick enough. So if the tip of her foot hits, per frame data it should be punishable, but by the time your active frames hit her she’s already blocking or had the time to reversal. For example Rose will slide > EX Soul Spiral and catch you with that frame trap even though the slide suppose to be -8 the distance makes all the difference.

Her lk pin wheel is -4, the rest are -8 and up. And the lk verison doesn’t have too much range so either they will try to whiff and catch you with the next one (a la Ken with lp srk > another srk). Other than that, if they are doing if after a jump in or close range she should be punished if you block.

If you set the training dummy to pin wheel > immediate crouch block you will see that little pause I’m referring to when her toes hit the ground, that’s when you should hit her. Cr. fp can punish her but the timing is tighter b/c it can be blocked high or low. The cr. roundhouse must be blocked low so it gives you an extra frame or 2 to work with, plus cr. roundhouse has more range than cr. fp.

Edit: She can also do that ambiguous jumping/cross up fuck shit like Abel, Blanka, and Bison but standing cl. hk can reset her ass and give you the frame advantage on her way down to meaty, frame trap, or bait.

[takinflight]

I have like a 75% win against her , that pinwheel kick is my bitch…

[iamthatiam]

Can you guys offer some more info up for the Dhalsim match?

I have my insight, but this match can be a bitch with his zoning and frame trapping.

[Raunwynn]

Can you guys offer some more info up for the Dhalsim match?

I have my insight, but this match can be a bitch with his zoning and frame trapping.

poke at him from long range with low counter and mp. fireball.
demon flip is really good against him too.
up close, low counter hits his slide and his 3 frame standing short.
if he teleports you can hit s.hk and stop it.

[iamthatiam]

poke at him from long range with low counter and mp. fireball.
demon flip is really good against him too.
up close, low counter hits his slide and his 3 frame standing short.
if he teleports you can hit s.hk and stop it.

Thanks man. I fought 3 good Sims yesterday.

9k bp - close fight but I won
7k bp - beat him down
6k bp- he beat me twice but the matches were very close. All long rang pokes and he kept catching my hado with teleport punish. He kept punishing my GF with his anti air knee and shit too… I guess I should have used air parry and timed my GF’s a little differently, I will upload the match when I get time.

[iamthatiam]

poke at him from long range with low counter and mp. fireball.
demon flip is really good against him too.
up close, low counter hits his slide and his 3 frame standing short.
if he teleports you can hit s.hk and stop it.

Thanks man. I fought 3 good Sims yesterday.

9k bp - close fight but I won
7k bp - beat him down
6k bp- he beat me twice but the matches were very close. All long rang pokes and he kept catching my hado with teleport punish. He kept punishing my GF with his anti air knee and shit too… I guess I should have used air parry and timed my GF’s a little differently, I will upload the match when I get time so you guys can tell me where I went wrong.