Thanks for posting this vid! Nice to know about it.
It would be really risky to guess a counter by gouken to punish it by an ultra.
Sure it can hit, but you also need some nice reactions for it.
Almost any misjudged move in the game can be punished, but you are right, having good reactions does make it easier to land it.
The way people use kongo will vary on their play style. There are A LOT of opportunities to land Kongo, especially EX Kongo. I believe one of the main reasons every one should practice on 1 frame links is, by doing that you get the timing and can if you are able to slide a kongo in between their attacks, even some 2 in 1’s are not fast enough to beat an in between kongo. On Vanilla you could Kongo Sagat’s cr. mk > tiger shot, I didn’t try the TU. You also have the kongo when you are playing the bait and punish game. This is good when you are doing Goukens normals up close or after a blocked palm (you can’t hit the palm too deep or it won’t work FYI).
Also keep in mind, Gouken’s counter beat’s A LOT of Ultra’s. and speaking of Ultra’s, if you are fighting Abel and he uses U2 up close Shin Sho eats it, and if you don’t have Shin Sho available use mk or hk Gouken Flip to jump over him and land behind him. You can also uses EX GF and grab, but the grab will whiff and you will land behind him. Palm beats it too, but he can catch you on start up.
iamthatiam -> we added some stuff for Cody and Seth. Please take a look!
Ok… I will update today. I saw it a bit early, but I didn’t have time to update, normally when I start updating stuff I’m doing it for a couple of hours or so, but I’ll def. include it today.
Updated, I will be adding some more videos from the vid’s thread today as well.
Dudley’s srk is set up this way.
lp/mp- 6 frame start up (safe jump same as sagat)
hp/ex - 4 frame start up (same as shoto’s)
Has anyone developed a decent strategy for this? I have some theories but I need to test b/c I’m sure his hit box is going weigh heavily on the timing of the reversal window.
Edit: Already answered by Nevillebamshew in this thread. http://shoryuken.com/threads/231347-Character-Specific-Option-Selects-and-situational-tactics
On another note, I was able to lp palm Bison on his folllow up punch from head stomp. I’m thinking the invincibility frames don’t allow him to hit Gouken as he whiffed both times. I gotta verify this as well.
Cr.short xx Tatsumaki Gourasen on Bison Headstomp followup works. Cr.short xx Kinjite Shoryuken as well, if you’re pretty confident they’ll follow up. Works exactly the same as Fei Long’s cr.forward xx Rekkashinken - lowers your characters’ hitbox, forces a whiff and catches them grounded in a standing position.
Or even just cr.short > throw. Bizarre enough looking and catches players out.
Never any need to fear Dudley’s wakeup, man. Just time and space your meaty dive kick right and you get free lockdown. All day.
None of Dudley’s uppercuts besides EX have invincibility.
Good Stuff. Safe jump city.
Is this is the case for all the the newer characters, as far as only their EX moves having the invincibility frames?
Pretty much. The odd unsafe-jumpable Ultra or two, but they’re all bad on wakeup.
Thanks for confirming.
Adon and T Hawk have legitimate non-EX reversals. Everyone else is pretty free without EX.
idk if this was known for a while or not but i havent seen it before, but its come to my attention that EX thunderknuckle from c.viper can be punished a couple ways now. blocked you have s.mp and c.lkxxhk tatsu. that c.lk to tatsu punish is a one frame kind of thing. EX tk leaves her at -5 and c.lk is now frame start up so as long as your timing is spot on thats about 225 dmg for ya. you can also just s.mp it while its on its way to you. can beat it clean.
so, who else is having trouble with adon?? ive got some methods of dealing with him, but nothing that works well for very long. what you all doing to deal with him?
Throwing many MP-Fireballs and when adon is going to do some jump ins with or without that special kick you have to guess some HP-Fireballs or surprise him with some random and also save palms before he jumps.
His other special kick who can get full screen is avoidable with a neutral jump HP, sometimes it is punishable. Depends on when you started to jump.
For the pokes use many st.mk to pretend him for jump ins. If you does this job good, you can throw more fireballs.
Ah ehm use U1 of course, to punish his special jump in kicks. You need reactions for sure, but it pays off.
I felt this matchup kinda easy against adon. This char is very predictable.
“Surprise him with random”.
Gameplan and a half right there. >_>
^
hahaha
good show.
vs Adon:-
I don’t know what tier this character is in. But he can rush down Gouken so quick if you don’t have the right zoning, reaction. These two things are what I think most matter this matchup.
- his jumps are quick, somewhat similar to Blanka; meaning when you are being knocked down, Adon can cross you up easily, suggest block the cross up then block low, rather than Kongo the cross up because they can often empty jump and throw you.
- he got 2 special moves which armor break, and I have a solution and video right below:-
-> Jaguar Kick <- frankly one of the best move in the game (next to Dictator’s LK scissors kick)
-> Jaguar Tooth <- do not use EX Tatsu, because if Adon baits you and do a LK / MK version, then you are screwed
Solution: against Jaguar Kick (credits to killakelly), you can do st.far MK to beat out of them when they keep looping this move. Do this during the start of their move so the st.MK will beat it clean. It will trade if you do it too late. But If you are quick enough, do LK tatsu and it will win everytime. You have to be smart not to do Kongo accidentally because you are at a block stance before you input the tatsu command. Updated-> you can do st.close HK to beat HK Jaguar Tooth, one thing I have a mistake to do it too early and the far HK will come out. Practice! One more, early jump HP, HK, LK will beat the move clean as well!
Video Link: [media=youtube]cODspogwbU8[/media]
Solution: against normal HK Jaguar Tooth (credits to killakelly and HW597), you can use 3 normals to beat it. The st.far HP, cr.HP, and st.far MK; The best I found is actually st.far HP, his palm needs to come out early (when you saw the Jaguar Tooth coming towards you). But against EX Jaguar Tooth, you can only use cr.HP or st.HP, you hit either one of these when Adon touches the WALL since he is real quick this time.
Video Link: [media=youtube]08V_gpqFcaQ[/media]
- Adon has a straight jump HK similar to Chun Li, long active frames, and they can do so as an immediate overhead; feel free to Kongo because the long active frames give you an advantage (like against Guy’s elbow drop)
- his wakeup Rising Jaguar has following properties make sure you have them in your head
-> LK Rising Jaguar startup 4 frames, 1-5 frames invincible against physical attack and projectiles
-> MK Rising Jaguar startup 5 frames, 1-6 frames invincible against physical attack and projectiles, 1-5 frames invicible to throws
-> HK Rising Jaguar startup 5 frames, 1-6 frames invincible against everything
-> EX Rising Jaguar startup 5 frames, 1-8 frames invincible against everything - just block his st.far HK, 2 hits, suggest to move away of that range because Adon is best at 1 to 2 character spacing with Gouken.
- When he has Ultra 1, HE IS BAITING FOR FIREBALL, he will keep walking forward and WANTING YOU TO DO FIREBALL, don’t unless you are at max range
- I found Gouken Flip throw is very good against Adon, or you can even do one at start of round occasionally; Make your opponent guess this time you are not running away!
- same as Ken, some Adon will do tick n throw all day long, so get your cr.LP/cr.LK ready and push them away.
- fireball is GOOD, all 3 versions, but whenever Adon has EX bar, he has reaction to do the EX Jaguar Kick to get through them and knock you down.
- cross up is good against Adon, because they cannot mash double-sided Rising Jaguar, as one of the 623 command is the Jaguar Kick move.
- st. far HK is very good against Adon, because every special move they are having a slow startup (except Rising Jaguar), and your st.HK can beat/counter/stuff them during their startup.
- occasional LP palm is okay.
- if you happen to block his HK/EX Jaguar Tooth, it is like blocking a scissors kick. (although it is -2 for Adon) so don’t do anything except cr.LP or jump back.:clown:
good shit viper! Adon can be a bit of a pest.
Added!