Thanks iamthatiam and Sosage, plus all the guys for the input. This is good stuff, I need probably a few hours to read them through!!! ^^
No prob at all, the old match up thread was in dire need of an over-haul.
Keep the input and videos coming as I’m trying to have atleast 10 or more match up videos linked per character and I’d like to have more input from others in the match up spoilers that currently only have my rambling.
You actually have a couple of vids floating in this thread somewhere, I can’t remember the match up though, but it’s in here. (Edit: Chun Li)
I didn’t post any Gouken vs. Gouken tips as it will expose many of his weaknesses to our opponents but I am looking for a lot of high level mirror matches to post.
Vs dhalsim
[media=youtube]buqVMHBnPK0"[/media]
added
Some of my 2cents, hope it helps
[against Juri]
- Her Air-to-Air normals are as good as Chun-Li. If you figure out they are going to jump attack, don’t wait for Kongo, jump up and hit MP or HP really early to beat her normals.
- whenever she gets near and plays the poking game, stop her by using crouching LK -> lp hadouken to push her away. Don’t mash kongo too much because some people LIKES to tick n throw.
- do not punish/counter when you block her light wheel kick, it is -4 on block and your sweep is 6 frames startup. They often bait with 2 light wheelkicks, and the last one will usually be EX version. So I suggest keep blocking till they do heavy/EX version.
- only jump in when she’s knocked down and no EX. Mix up with cross up jump in, forward throw, gouken flip sweep (if she jumps a lot).
Try to figure out a gameplan as early as possible. I suggest rushing Juri down. Although Gouken has a faster fireball plus angled fireball to control spacing, Juri has a LOT of options to evade those fireballs. Mid screen is not good as she can do those DIVES with armor break to close in. Staying real close to her is the best option, force her to use energy on EX wheelkicks, cross her up, tick n throw, demon flip dive kick/sweep. Alternate these in each round and you should be on the advantage!
added
I hate fighting KEN ~~
[against Ken]
I am not going to repeat what iamthatiam had mentioned so here we go.
-
Scrub Kens like to do cr. forward -> EX fireball after their little block strings, gotta stop Focus after the low forward because they get EX bar fast!
-
Zone them by reading their mind, they have these options, -> fireball; step kick; jump HK, let’s say you only jump forward if they a fireball close.
-
they like low forward after step kick, do low Kongo ; don’t EX Kongo because it does less damage
-
As suggested by iamthatiam, More often they blocked your jump-in attack, they SRK; Watch their EX bar the whole game to see if they can FADC.
-
When they have U2, never throw lp fireball even half screen; Trust me.
-
Good Kens are nightmare, all their cross ups are well timed with flurries of crouch, LK, LP and Kara throw, BLOCK everything until you figure they push you to “KARA throw” zone; then its time for you to do low LK to push them away, it is actually good option because it avoids kara throw and also trades with any normals Ken throws after his short attacks.
-
Either dash back or jump cross up Ken. Because you don’t want to stay in his step kick zone. Sometimes I will do jump back, Air light tatsu, to get away.
Ken SRK has improved with startup, recovery, damage. So Gouken’s main attack route will NOT be dive kick, cross up, jump in tick n throw; I strongly suggest taking the game to a whole new level.
E.G. stay back 3/4 to full screen and do fireballs, when 3/4 screen, do LP palm and learn his reactions (LP palm is good at this range as it is pretty safe on block at max range, Ken must block or if he’s good enough to SRK your palm I have nothing to say. You shouldn’t let him see the palm coming).
E.G. Walk up from far away, see his reactions. Your sweep is 6 frames and is probably your best choice if he did anything punishable, ok, if he jumps toward you (which should be close range but not enough to cross you up) react with Standing Close HK.
E.G. At mid screen, do high Kongo / low Kongo a couple of times for no reason. This shuts down some of his options in his HEAD. Then you dash forward to throw~~ you get what I mean? Good Kens has everything well ranged, well timed, and they will fall for Random stuff. You should think of your own.
One thing for me to add abt Ken ultra 2, when he activates it, just crouch hp. Very easy to beat it…
[against Juri]
[media=youtube]4n2Yw3K3KKg"[/media]
All I can do is laugh… [media=youtube]fsL7XqIQ-C4#t=1m0s[/media]
The ??? Gouken is Bullcat, he is the highest BP Gouken on XBL, I actually want to see some more of his matches so I can see what he does. Prob nothing new, but it would still be nice to see.
I would like to see the entire set between he and Diago. I think after playing a few rounds or so with someone they condition you to do certain things, maybe Diago conditioned him to block. LOL At any rate, I’d love to see some more of his Gouken.
Hold on… did his SRK just beat an EX TATSU?? WTF?
Was he one of these modded xbox, week and a half early release type of cats? I’ve seen some of his vids. I can say I was honestly NOT taken aback.
Yes it did. But only ex srk beats ex tatsu. And he used ex srk if he would of done ex df he would of won that round but he guessed wrong oh well he was trying to avoid chip and probably didn’t think he would use ex for chip win.
He should be the best Gouken on XBL and he’s not on those modded xbox. His style is safe, no fancy stuff (unlike Desora). Some of my friends (including Penny1124 on XBL) has set their country flag to Japan and played with these guys on ranked matches randomly. They say Bullcat is really really really tough to beat.
If any one can find some vids of his fights, please post them. Even though I wasn’t impressed by that Ryu Match Up w/ Diago, I don’t think he happened to rack up all those BP by chance.
EX SRK has a lot of invincibility… and some Ryu mains complain they do not have a good anti-air…
Bullcat looks decent but Desora seems way better… anyhow there’s a video of Bullcat fighting a rose here [media=youtube]YcpuQSHi7C0&feature=related[/media]
That earlier post was my shock when I realized Ryu can now also beat the air parry with a dragon punch (so… what’s the point of this move?) … it reminded me of [media=youtube]twMnVd2iTpw#t=0m27s[/media] all over again
Edit: Orion’s right… EX flip out
his DP turned into a reversal because the crouching-fierce hit ryu. so, yeah…
Air-parry is great against characters with SRK-type moves, even on knock-downs. just don’t parry during their reversal window, parry right as it ends.
Yeah I already learned to work around the reversal issues a while back, but in Bullcat’s video [media=youtube]fsL7XqIQ-C4#t=1m0s[/media] , that was not within a reversal window at all.
The Gouken clearly wanted to bait the uppercut… and he correctly predicted it would come out, but now he has a new layer of monstrosity to deal with in his air parry since the infamous herpderp move multi-hits.
Why don’t the game developers just admit they’re artificially making some characters good and others barely functional? They might as well give Ryu a free win button and finish the job.
Edit: Sorry folks. I’m probably getting too annoying. I’ll drop it.
The problem wasn’t the air-parry move or the two-hit SRK. The problem was the obvious use of the air-parry attempt. I’m also pretty sure that he buffered the srk until he heard gouken’s grunt.
Daigo’s knows what gouken can do after a knockdown. So he knew that a late jump-in could lead to 2 things, either an air-parry attempt or dive kick. It wouldn’t be a throw because the jump arc wouldn’t let it connect. You can see that he moved back to either block a dive kick or punish the parry, but when he heard gouken’s grunt all he had to do was press a punch button.
It’s a good trick, but it was executed poorly.
what do you guys think?
If you are jumping in on a grounded shoto it needs to be a delayed Gouken Flip Dive Kick or a reversal cross up. This would remove the fact that you could be herp derped out of the move, except from Sagats EX TU and in those cases, we just don’t use the air parry we just stuff or safe jump his srk.
I just think that shit was a bad idea on Bull Cats part, with the right timing you can either opt to dive kick or parry, and both should beat out any of the shoto’s options and give Gouken a free punish if he chose to use srk. I still don’t subscribe to using air parry more that 1 - 2 times an entire set, but that’s just me.
The safe bet would have been just to dive kick him and force him to either get stuffed, make him block, or hit him with a tatsu or cr. roundhouse option select if he decided to back dash out.