Ive said this plenty of times…
St. Forward>Light Flip Kick will crossup on ALL SHOTOS
(Corner) Ex Palm>Fierce Fireball>St. Fierce>Light Flip Kick will crossup most if not all…
Nice Find Tho Gamogo
Aight bitches…I made a quick videos to showcase Old Man Gouken’s Demon Flip Crossups …
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Note: ALL THIS SHIT IS PRACTICAL…and learning Backthrow > 1 hit Jumping Strong will improve your game…it gives the opponent in the reset mixup MUCH (either that or akward) less time to react after Standing or Cr. Fierce…
Standing Forward > Light Demon Flip Kick= Crossup on Shotos…Haven’t tested it on everyone else…I know it wont work on everybody …
Corner-Fierce>Forward Demon Flip Kick= Crossup when FACING RIGHT…haven’t tested the other characters…but Im pretty sure it rocks with everyone…
Corner-Ex Palm > Jp Forward Strong (1hit)>Standing Fierce>Medium OR Light Demon Flip Kick =Crossup (Im pretty sure this works anywhere on the screen but with Medium Flip Kick after 1 hit Jumping strong)
Corner-Ex Palm>Fierce Fireball>Standing Fierce> Light or Medium Demon Flip Kick also=Crossup…
Corner-Standing Fierce>Tatsu>FADC>Standing Fierce>Light Flip Kick=Crossup
Before I hear all you say bullshit like "Oh it loses to SRK"
My Answer to you is…Don’t be predictable and if he delays the SRK after the standing fierce…do a parry…If he does it RIGHT after the Demon Flip…you are fucked…Or just make sure it hits and finish the combo…There shouldn’t be a need to loop this more than twice…The Dizzy should = end of the match…
- “It’s a waste of meter”…SO WHAT…shit creates match ending damage if done right…
All in all this shit works ALOT, Blocked or Hit…this is basically is what you need to assure that Old Man Gouken puts A LOT of pressure on character if done right…As this settles into your game…you can alternate the Light and Medium Kick to fuck with your opponents blocking…Just remember the places where the crossups are applicable…Remember it’s just a tactic to apply to your game
Im not dropping some Messianic knowledge here…
If this blocked…which is hard to do without expecting the crossup…Do Standing Fierce>Demon Flip Throw or sweep etc…
This is the only one I already use now and then (still working on my execution for the faster stuff, tatsu -> FADC -> anything is a bitch tbh), and I must say about 99% of the time I just get shoryuken’d. Maybe it’s the level at which I play (G3 until very recently e.g. flowchart kens TO THE MAX), but doing a SRK on recovery seems to be second nature for a lot of players.
Of course I still trashed them completely, but it is often mostly a long distance trapping/reactionary game, not a sick crossup combo’s kind of game.
I don’t know… “don’t be predictable” is all fine and dandy, but if your mixup consists largely of crossup attempts, doesn’t that leave you vulnerable to opponents who can rack up the damage after an AA attack? As I said this is all a bit above my league, so interpret this as an honest question, not veiled criticism, please 
Yes, as he said, most of this loses to muscle memory SRK. However, if the guy does not have EX or (2 bars + ultra), it really isnt going to hurt much. Plus, you know that he is most likely going to throw SRK any chance he gets which means you can punish him horribly the next time.
^^^^^ EXACTLY
@ Castar…-I hear what you are saying…This video is just to show what Gouken can do with his demon flip mixup…CROSS UP WISE…99% of the time…If I get the hit a combo is coming…not another Demon Flip…The video is exaggerated to show the hitboxes…
My crossup mixup makes up about 20% of my demon flip mixup game (Watch my videos…)…It really just throws ALOT of people off when having to block the other way.
I mean let’s be serious…SRK beats almost 99.9% of the RESET shit out there…BUT you wont always play Shotos…and Gouken’s game is NOT a defensive or a reactionary character…I think a lot of people on this board think he’s nothing more than a defensive character which makes be believe that a lot of yall are playing toward his weaknesses and not his strengths.
Even then I do use Demon Flip Mixup ALOT to toy with characters…and will usually try to measure how they handle the mixup and then capitalize on their psychic SRK…
Standing fierce> BLOCK and do NOTHING…is a great tool…
Gouken should be a played as a character that creates scary trends for the opponent then breaks the pattern to throw people off…
Remember the video isn’t to show his WHOLE demon flip mixup game…Video would be TOO long…I have a lot of different demon flip mixup mind games that I think many on the board can attest to. This is just to expand on what me and Gamogo were talking about with tricky crossups…Remember this only needs to be connected with ONCE and damage is BIGGGG…
Pertinent info is pertinent info…If this doesn’t improve your game…Then I can’t help most of yall…but this should intrigue those who have almost nothing else to practice with Gouken mixup and combo wise…
Oh, it’s massively helpful alright My offense is sorely lacking and this will surely help. If you ever feel the need to share something else, please, don’t restrain yourself :wgrin:
On the rest, yeah, I’ve seen your vids of course. Thing is that when you watch a vid of someone much more skilled than yourself, most of the stuff that is happening seems “random”. Spotting combo’s is easy, but non-combo setups are much harder, since it’s hard to tell when they start, when they end, and if they fail, what went wrong. A post like yours, shedding some light on certain tactics and setups, while extremely helpful, often raises question about all the shit that is NOT discussed in it But the replies were very helpful, and of course I would never expect anyone to divulge every last one of his strats 
@Shogun Assassin: I have to agree - sometimes the mixup stuff is completely needed to break down the opponent - especially some of the charge characters. For instance, I have almost 0 success playing Gouken defensively against good Honda players. He just does not have many easily punishable moves.
Signed.
Goddamn, I got mauled by a godly Honda today. I need to develop some new tricks for this match up. Good Hondas are difficult.
Honda, Dictator, and Boxer are the toughest matchups for me. Ryu is tougher than Sagat - I think due to his better cross-up game.
Honda
Boxer I am okay with as a buddy I play with regularly is a Boxer player. I’m convinced match-up confidence comes from experience as much as knowledge. You’re right though - he’s still a tough match and you must be switched on when dealing with him. Boxer loves eating Gouken’s Ultra though. Get your execution of it down as fast as possible and react to dash punches 
Ryu and Sagat are both tough, I agree. Sagat is more difficult for me as I sometimes disregard that level of discipline you have to muster when playing Sagat that is hinged on you keeping in mind his insane power output and strength. As a result I sometimes catch myself going ‘oh shit!’ when I realise I’m down to 30% health.
I think Gouken is well equipped to deal with Ryu, Ken and Akuma. Trickiest is perhaps insanely agressive Ryus who mix up a lot of throws and wake-up dickery. Thats when the mind games come into play and you find yourself (and your opponent) making a lot of 50/50 stabs in the dark. On that subject I am finding low counter very effective against Ryu players lately who fish for combo openers via low pokes. Shrug a couple of those off with a low or EX counter to minimise their willingness to keep fishing.
Anywho. Waffle. Honda! I need to mix this guy up a bit. Your comment made me realise I was playing a lot on the run and defensively with my real punishment on Honda coming from getting stuck in. Perhaps that is key. There’s a running gag on an AU SFIV forum larely about Honda’s insane butt-splash effectiveness. Its really tricky when spammmed like crazy and some of our good Honda players here are shamelessly spamming the hell out of it. I personally have no problem with this at all, I just need to figure out how it is beaten. Its hard to come up with a reliable approach when you’re constantly being sat on though
Ochio grab has good range and the EX version is fast and wide reaching. His jump straight up fp has crazy range AND can be maneuvered in the air. PLUS Honda is actually very strong. He has lots of plus points to him. Another way of screwing with charge characters for me is resetting their charge by crossing up and thus taking it away from them. This trick isn’t too effective on Honda as he can retain butt-splash charge which is a very effective move for him. Moreso than say a comparitive situation with Guile charge resets and his Flash Kick - which is a bit poorly in IV.
Honda’s normals all have good range too. For a while there many were saying that Honda isn’t very good in IV and I tend to disagree. In the hands of good players, Honda is solid and makes a very tricky opponent who can really dish out serious damage.
lp fireball is hard for honda to deal with because anything but a psychic jump is easy for gouken to deflect.
you can throw a high fireball now and then once you have convinced him not to headbutt, but it isnt necessary.
you can beat lots of hondas by lp fireballs and punishing their jump with kongoshin or c.hp.
if you want to consistently do well against honda though, you have to have an answer to sumo splash.
lp, mp and ex sumo splash put honda at -2 frame advantage after the descending blocked hit.
hp splash is -3 frames on block and lets you throw him.
i can never throw a decent honda after splash so i assume they do not use the hp version in their buttsplash-o-matic assault.
kongoshin is the perfect tool for this.
honda cant stop himself from performing the second hit, which does not break armor.
fa would be great if you were sure the splash wasnt going to cross you up.
just blast his descent with kongoshin and he has to get over the fireballs to try again.
if you can train yourself to kongoshin after honda goes up, you destroy his one chance at a game against you in my opinion.
IMO, it is more of a matchup problem for Gouken rather than Honda being an overall stronger character.
The problem with Honda is you cannot really throw mp/hp hado against a Honda who knows Gouken. Honda is going to charge as he jumps over lp hado and headbutt when he sees that you threw a non-lp hado. If you continue to throw lp hado he is going to continue to push you into the corner and then you are in real trouble.
Headbutt is very fast and AFAICT, not punishable - even by lp palm on reversal. So, basically, it is not that hard for Honda to get inside because a select few of his stronger jump-ins really trump c.fp. Also, he has one crossup belly flop jumpin that tends to go through Gouken’s counter. I am not sure if it is a glitch or if it is supposed to do it or maybe I am just crazy.
Anyway, once he is inside he is basically a wrecking ball (slap/command throw/splash/crossup) and not much of his stuff is punishable by Gouken. His command throw setups are NASTY. Makes me wish for 3 frame SRK
I try to play high pressure mixup games with him (which is not my natural play style but is something I HAVE to get better at) while trying to avoid ex-butt splash.
Raun,
Ya, the heavy butt splash is throwable but it is not always within range of the throw - beware the bait - a good honda player knows when it is safe and he also knows that you think it might not be
if you hit sumo splash with kongoshin, gouken is a heavy favorite in this fight.
honda has a terrible time with fireballs.
My Gouken is so-so. I’m at 3.5K CP and the bigger B&B combo I simply cannot do: it’s the dash that kills me. 99% of the time, I can’t seem to dash fast enough. I can dash (do it all the time), but I can’t seem to time the dash + tatsu to land for anything. If I toss a FADC in the mix, I make it no issue, but that eats up the EX stock and I don’t always have it.
if you double tap forward right after the second hit of your ex palm, you can just do the tatsu right then.
you dont have to time anything.
as long as you are not failing the input of either move, gouken will complete his dash forward and then tatsu.
i dont do that combo because of the big 3 tatsu failings though:
- if you whiff tatsu, they get whatever they want on you. (i am not sure but i think there are some characters that are hard to hit with this.)
- if you dizzy on the way up, your ability to take advantage of dizzy is compromised.
- if you do not hit with the last strike of tatsu, they can counter attack after safe fall. (not much of a problem for the tatsu after ex palm, but something i keep in mind as a general rule.)
i just hit with mp. palm after ex palm and then get some chip damage through fireballs or start a demon flip assault, depending on the matchup.
i hate tatsu.
It is not really a big deal. IMO, the HK tatsu combo finisher is of limited utility due to lack of pressure followup.
I use it in these situations:
- It will kill when mp palm will not
- Against characters I don’t want to follow up on - e.g. Zangief
- When I am screwing around
The bigger issue is that if you have execution problems with HK tatsu after ex-palm, you are probably going to have major execution problems with the more difficult Gouken tricks.
like what?
i feel that gouken is not very challenging technically.
Did you check the #482 vids?
i do not know what you are referring to.
do you have a link?
The post number 482 in this same page. Check for some youtube links in a post in this page, I was referring to them.