Awesome
Look at what iplaywinner has for Gouken’s GOOD/BAD match ups… LOL.
I dont see anything. it says N/A for both…
That’s the funny part.
It should have had T. Hawk for Good Match Up and for Bad Match Up: Everybody Else. LOL
Like he doesn’t have a BAD Match Up.
Heck I took it as they just didn’t know or were too lazy to list them lol
Holy shit you guys have a bunch of threads. Well i guess this is the place I need to go.
Um so we in the tierlist thread have been working on a massive tierlist, and right now… Gouken is BOTTOM. I’m having a hard time coming to grips with that. There are a lot of matches that i think wins or goes even in, but right now everyone’s just shitting on the old man and I can’t take it.
Apparently we don’t have any Gouken Experts in the tierlist thread so i’m petitioning help here. If I need to make a new thread i’ll do it, but I didn’t think it was necessary. Please see the attached for MU#s, and let me know what needs to change and why. any input in here or in the tierlist thread would be GREATLY GREATLY appreciated.
Note - Legend:
Yellow - Barely contested, probably won’t change
Blue - Heavily contested, probably will change
Purple - I was given a 7-3 or worse match up that were adjusted due to being heavily contested. Probably will not change, unless the MU is really bad.
Green - I was not given MU numbers for these after 3 weeks, so I assumed 5-5 for them. Subject to change.
Thanks in advance!
Which ones you find terrible?
I think he has some tough ones, but my worst 2 are Akuma and Adon.
Bison and Cammy are my worst by far. I really need to learn those matches. Am I the only one that thinks the gief match has gotten way easier? I can’t put my finger on what it is but it is easier than I remember it being back in the day.
I don’t lose to Akuma a lot but if they are good he just gets brain dead set ups that keep knocking me down if I try to escape. Zangiefs jump was altered, and EX Tatsu owns him like it’s no body’s business. His lariat was nerfed toO, that was the bullshit in the match up bc hE could just spin for free and you had to block all of it.
I guess I was gone too long to notice what it was
Zang and ryu are piece of cake IMO now.
Bison, I’ve learned a lot of shit on him lately, I did a bison week, and it gave me some REAL GOOD STUFF on him. I’ll try to summarize it on the bison match up thread when I have time.
I found some tech against akuma that might help a lot, I’ll post on the akuma thread.
I’d like to hear your input on that one for sure. I hate that fucker
Check it out, I’ll try to go more over it when I have time. I might have a few replays recorded, I’ll see if I can show you.
Adon is easily a 7-3 matchup, Cammy and Yang are also very bad. As far as matchups in his favor I can only say in good conscience that if there are matchups in his favor then they are t-hawk and dhalsim. Gouken isn’t the type of character whose strengths really dominate in any particular regard and as a result he’s even a lot or just outright loses. If anything some of the numbers are actually skewed to make some of those matchups look better than they actually are, because their isn’t really a consistency or measurement as to how bad a 7-3 or 6-4 is. In my eyes a 7-3 is a matchup you pretty much have to counterpick(like adon)
Matchups like Cammy where you cannot really effectively zone and they stick on you I would say are bordering 7-3 out of favor.
But if all the bad matchups are simply put down as 4 rather than 4.5 or 3 then this says to me that all of his bad matchups are equally bad when they aren’t. I’d much rather fight a good chun li than to fight a good Adon, in the case of Adon I will just choose Dudley and the matchup is so much more tolerable/winnable yet according to the matchup chart Dudley and Gouken are both at the same statistical advantage. So I think it’s the inconsistencies from the feedback that make some of the numbers more arbitrary than concrete or rooted in the same consistency. Against an Adon and Chun , one of the matches is entirely winnable and the other one is really difficult. I know a lot of arguments are to be made so a lot of those numbers are a result of concessions and compromise, but it’s a nice effort.
tl:dr
I think it would be more helpful if there was a sort of rubric as to what is classified as a 7-3 6-4 and .5 variances. I think there is a distinction to be made between characters who have a upperhand like balrog or bison and characters who gouken can’t zone effectively and are especially obnoxious in close quarters like adon/cammy.
Can I get a list of reasons Adon is that bad? I don’t find it’s 7x3. I need to do an adon week. I used to think bison was terrible, turns out it’s not that bad. I’d say 5x5 and maybe slightly towards him. MAYBE.
What makes it so bad?
Spamable armor breaker
low/mid pressure mixup
better footsies
anti-fireball technology
AA that flip-kick doesn’t beat
basically, he has everything a character needs to make gouken look stupid
you guys have a good adon player that you face on a regular basis to show me? Cause I’m not sure if I agree with those arguments, but I’'m willing to be proven wrong.
I think gouken has tools to stop the armor break spam, have nice footsies and fuck him over on wake up. BUT I might be wrong, so see it for myself might be the best way.
As for fb’s yeah, sometimes you’re better not throwing any.
bump? lol