Gimlet DHC-input bug

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
21

My inputs are during the super freeze. Sorry I upset you, FlungDungFar, but I’m actually working to see what’s going on here.

Pics in spoiler, which correspond with the section of my video that starts at @43 seconds in.

Spoiler

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/ZephyrBlayze/gimletbreakdown1.jpg

One QCF input. This is the final frame before the super freeze.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/ZephyrBlayze/gimletbreakdown2.jpg

The input window is not shown during the cinematic. This is the last frame of the cinematic.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/ZephyrBlayze/gimletbreakdown3.jpg

A second QCF motion is on the screen now. There is no way I could have input it during the time between frame 1379 and 1380. It was most definitely done during the super freeze cinematic. You can also see that Nova hasn’t actually been hit yet. Gimlet takes one frame to hit.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/ZephyrBlayze/gimletbreakdown4.jpg

Hawkeye starts his jump off the screen on frame 1381 as Nova gets hit, and Doom will come in with Doom Time shortly thereafter.

So when I’m saying I’m having trouble executing this bug, please understand the reason I’m having trouble executing it is because it’s just not working for me.

Astaroth, Doromac, Ampharos have all managed to get their parts in without being condescending and are causing me to try and peel away at it to see if I can really pinpoint it.

The only time I reliably reproduce a DP DHC is if I have the forward direction held as the super freeze begins, even if I go neutral after. This is, however, not what is being reported from the others. So, whatever’s going on here, I don’t know. I get my QCF DHCs without any problems. I’m sorry I couldn’t shed any more light on it for you guys.

22

No, that’s exactly the issue. You’re getting a DP because the game is reading your input as :dp::f::atk::atk: This is not a bug anymore than IF getting a Chi powerup instead of a rekka after quick kick, which is to say, not at all. It’s purely input error. Specifically, you’re either holding forward for too long, hitting attack too soon or inputting the :qcf::atk:atk: too quickly. Since looking at the input display discredits the third one, it’s one of the first two problems and nothing else.

DP motions have higher input priority than QCF motions. The game sees you’ve input a QCF and DP motion within the same timeframe, so the DP takes precedence. This is not a bug. At best, you could simply say the the input windows are too wide in this game… which still makes the problem of getting Sphere Flame instead of Doom Time (etc.) purely an executional error.

23

If you let the stick go to neutral before the freeze (as Zephyr said), this doesn’t happen. But, even with a way to avoid this, I think it’s a problem that should be fixed. Whatever direction you’re holding at the start of the freeze is held in the input buffer throughout the whole freeze.

24

The Gimlet DHC bug also affects Frank West from doing his camera OTGxxBlue Light Special once he hits level 3 and gets Face Crusher.

Oddly enough, doing :d::df: :f:+:s:, :d::df: :f:+:2p: gets you the QCF super, and :d::df::f:,:s:, :d::df: :f:+:2p: or :d::df::f:,:s:, :d::df::f::2p: gets you the AA Super, every time I’ve tested it. Input display always displays it as the third one though. So, so long as you hold forward instead of going neutral to do the camera, you get the right one to the best of my knowledge.

Not sure how this might work with the Hawkeye DHC. Anyone want to test it out?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see people already have. And it’s the exact opposite of Frank’s situation.

25

This glitch was already in MVC3 Vanilla and someone (i don’t remember who) found how to erase any input during the super freeze.

You just have to input a super jump during the freeze and any input you did before will be deleted so now you can QCF +LM then super jump and do another QCF and you will not have a DP super anymore.

This super jump tips can be useful in others case too so remember this

26

A good way to negate the ‘bug’ is to hold up, or back immediately after doing gimlet. This will cancel out the -> input.

27

[FONT=Helvetica]i found something interesting about hawkeye while my friend was playing him

so you need at least two characters if he tries to chip you to death with his insta super don’t know what it’s called you can hold down the assist button to call out your other character and totally avoid it (x-factor not taken into consideration) as for punishing idk you test it out
of course you have to be on the ground and not doing anything[/FONT]

28

Zero should be on that list of affected characters! i have DHCd into his level 3 (instead of rainbow) a few times due to this issue

29

Serious issue, that can actually lead to you losing Majors.

God damn, I feel sorry for Chris G. There is nothing we can do, but adapt.

30

This needs to be fixed. I know other people have mentioned it, but this will affect characters that have a DP motion level 3 as well.
Happened to me in tourney with deadpool.

Too the people saying it’s sloppy inputs, it’s not. Try it for yourself with input display on.

31

…Wait a second what happened to the post with the video showing there wasn’t a bug?

32

Yeah, okay.

[media=youtube]bwdH8kcGIhY[/media]

You’re still wrong

I looked at the video and noticed an error with part of the video/audio syncing. I took down the video and deleted my post, fixed the issue, then reuploaded it and made the post again. Sorry! Actually, it seems in this current one, I have the correct version and the off-sync version overlayed on top of each other, so I’m currently fixing that. I’ll keep it up this time though, and edit in the third version when it’s up. Edit: Done~

Second edit: Eh, but I’ve decided to do a bit more editing. There’s some stuff I need to look over before I have this be up for realsies. Fourth version coming… Within the hour?

Third edit: And it’s there now.

33

Good job on the condescending tone.

Anyway, it’s still not necessarily only sloppy inputs. The leniency of the buffer system feels different in Ultimate. I know for a fact that I had not once experienced, seen, or heard about this in vanilla. Then, all of sudden, it starts popping up everywhere in Ultimate.

34

Well, hey. It’s hard not to be condescending when things have been explained so clearly before, but people keep saying, “No really, guys, it’s a bug, for realsies, I have no proof but I can just say that over and over until it becomes true.” Nothing on you specifically, but the quoted post was pretty bad about it, also saying you could do :qcf: :qcb: and get :dp: which is blatantly not true and I have no idea how that occurred to him. Still, I suppose I have to apologize for that.

But, it’s exactly only sloppy inputs. This same issue did actually exist in Vanilla. I used to catch one of my local akumas, a very skilled player, with Taskmaster arrow hyper, out of his hadoukens from fullscreen. Now, from fullscreen, the arrows don’t actually reach Akuma before he can beam super. But because I caught him out of hadouken, he was already pressing forward into the super flash, and he could no longer beam out of the super flash; if he tried he got :dp: super, because the forward was there and :f: :qcf: is considered :dp:. But that wasn’t a gimmick I could rely on for very long; he resolved the issue by making his fireball inputs cleaner to prevent me from doing it on reaction by going back to neutral immediately after pressing the button. I could still do it if I guessed he’d fireball there, but if he didn’t, he could super jump on reaction and come down with a full combo, so guessing with it was very bad. This clearly happened for the exact same reason people are getting gimlet to :dp: super, because the underlying issue was still there. But it’s not a bug, and clean inputs does solve it. If you have let go of forward by the time you get to the super flash then you are not locked into :dp:, period and the end.

35

I had heard from 2 different people that QCB would give you a DP super but I had never experienced it. After posting, I went and tried it out myself, couldn’t replicate it, and edited my post. Too bad Mr. Quickdraw McStark had to screencap it and go make a video right then.

And it shouldn’t be hard for a mod to not be condescending. I understand why the “gltich” works, and the ways to get around it. Maybe your definition of a “clean input” is different than mine.

36

First off I’m not a mod. Second off I really wonder what your definition of a clean input could possibly be if it’s not “an input without parts that could potentially cause conflicts.” There’s no gameplay reason to continue to hold forward, and releasing it at the first opportunity completely solves the issue. If that’s not a matter of how clean your inputs are I don’t really know what is.

I’m sorry for putting you on the spot about the :qcb: thing if it wasn’t your problems, though. But you probably shouldn’t have had that in your original post if you weren’t sure about it.

37

What a piece of shit Stark is; banning me from his channel for having legitimate points for my perspective that contradicts his own regarding input systems like he’s someone important?

Whatever, I ignore all his other vids anyway and I’ll just ignore him here.

edit

Someone mind telling me how to use the ignore function? I think I still have people on ignore but I’m still seeing their posts?

In any case, the stale argument that “clean inputs > all quirks” is shit in an absolute sense. Having to constantly, consciously, circumvent a lenient input system is unintuitive almost by definition if you’re someone looking to become better at the game (or FGs in general), and ironic in regards to what it’s supposed to actually achieve. Intuition is built on learning, and learning takes practice. You can’t account for all the variables in this fast and massive game in which to train your muscle memory and intuition. It actually makes many things in the game HARDER to execute than they should be.

The double 236 hyper motion is just one of the most obvious but more easily circumvented cases. Try doing Magneto’s ROM Fierce loop facing to the right using the 3/9 directions - Repulser all day. I have to use 3689 to be consistent with it, which I have to consider a harm to my FG executional foundation. Impromptu Tri-Dash 3/1 + ATK often nets me the same results, and I have to be concsious to avoid neutral /down all-together, using arcane motions like 8741/8963 + ATK which is absolutely retarded.

Here’s a kicker, I’m hoping someone wouldn’t mind testing further for me: I haven’t tested this 100%, but try doing ADDF with Iron Man immediately after an Air Grab. If your input reads 2+3 and not simply 3, you’ll get ADDB (1 input). There doesn’t have to be a 1 input anywhere in the input systems memory for this to happen. It’s absolutely bizarre and absolutely asinine. There seems to be more to the input leniency that just a large buffer window and priority to specific motions.

38

I dont care about who’s wrong or who’s right, just care about facts. Right now though, evidence points to insta-DHC inputs being wonky.

First off, this is NOT a Gimlet or even Hawkeye based problem. This should be in the general discussion for Ultimate, not character specific.

Any character with a DP and qcf special move (tested with Ryu): qcf, qcf+A = shoryuken
qcf,hcf+A= hadouken
Any character with a DP and qcf super: qcf, qcf+AA = DP super
qcf, hcf+AA = qcf super.

Do the same thing but with DHCs, by putting the inputs in during the freeze and holding the buttons down and the priorities are different from the specials; you can’t hcf to for a qcf like you can with specials.
qcf+AA, qcf+AA = DHC is the DP super.
qcf+AA, hcf+AA = DHC is the DP super.
qcf+AA, 360+AA = DHC is the DP super.

So, if there’s something funky with the inputs for DHC during freeze, that’s fine, bug or not. But I just want to know the details so I can perform what I want when I want. Which leads me to this problem:

Go into training mode, with your team being Iron Fist, Hawkeye, whoever. Dummy team can be anyone, but I had wolvie on point for them. Walk dummy to the corner, as far as you can so you’re in point blank range, you against wolvie and wolvie with his back to the wall. Now, do Iron Fist’s QCF super, and DHC into Gimlet before Iron Fist’s super hits. You want to be against Wolvie so you have to DHC before the first hit; you dont want it whiffing.

So far, I can’t do it. If I cancel by doing the moves during the flash, I always get Hawkeyes DP+AA super, never Gimlet. If Im thinking right, the only way it might even be possible is to hit the buttons in the 2 frame window before Iron Fist’s super hits. That’s if its possible at all.

Call it a bug if you like, but instead of arguing whether its a bug or just the input parsing, let’s agree to not care and instead figure out how to get around the problem and force it to do what we want it to.

39

Look, guy. I banned you from my channel for directly insulting me, and then also saying nonsensical things like I’m uncompetitive and don’t value precision. If you want to have an actual conversation, that’s fine, I am always up for that. But when you say stuff like, “What a piece of shit Stark is,” how exactly do you expect me to respond to that?

40

I did some independent testing on this, and I think Amazing Ampharos has it right. If you do a QCF super with one of the characters in that list, then DHC out during the super flash, this issue may affect you. Using Wesker -> Ryu as my test case, I found that doing 236+PP, 236+PP usually gets Shin Shoryuken. If I delay the PP on the first super slightly, so instead I’m inputting 2365+PP, 236+PP, I can get Shinkuu Hadoken reliably.

It’s hard to test this precisely since Input Display doesn’t show when you’ve returned the stick to neutral, but I am literally letting go of the stick before pressing PP for Wesker’s super, and that’s allowing me to get Shinkuu Hadoken consistently. Tiger Kneeing the Wesker super also works; you just need to make sure that the last direction input at the start of the super flash is something other than straight forward.