Gief Matchup Help

This was posted in the matchup thread

— “Lariat Punishes: Short Upper, ex.Upper, Ultra, Super, sweep, cr. Fierce, and st. Jab.
This is a footsie battle. Do not hold back.”

My footsies can only hold Gief back for a limited time then eventually he’ll come in and that’s where problems begin. I found jumping fierce to be good against lariat - at worst it will trade I think. So what’s the main approach to take once he gets in?

Also, are the ways of avoiding green hand/lariat (other than spacing) rather that trying to punish/counter, because it’s kinda risky and doesn’t always pay off especially if you mistime it online.

Man I hate lariat’s priority. I once tried to chip a Gief to death with Ultra and BOOM lariat - I LOSE!

There any good videos of this matchup I should watch too?

Next time, you should probably just ask your matchup question in the matchup thread itself. :slight_smile:

Anyway, just some thoughts on the matchup. Not sure how these tips will work out online though, as I usually avoid online play due to lag:

-I think that info you posted is a bit dated. It was from Vanilla when Gief’s Lariat could still hit crouching Rog after the first spin. In Super most crouching normals should work (cr. roundhouse is awesome), as long as you’re within range and as long as you do it after the first spin.

-You probably already know this, but your strategy in this matchup should be to avoid getting pushed into the corner, while gaining and maintaining a life lead by punishing Gief’s attempts to get in. You screw up once and you’re likely to lose a large chunk of life to Gief’s vortex. It can be really taxing mentally because you can’t drop your guard for one second, but that’s just the way the matchup is.

-For footsies, watch how PR Rog does it: [media=youtube]dzo8UJud2UE]YouTube - Final Round XIII: Jan (ZA) vs. vVv Scrub [Eduardo[/media]

It’s a pretty old video, but the matchup remains largely the same. Just don’t use the jump back trick on Gief’s wakeup too much, as you can get punished for it.

-Jumping in on Gief for any reason isn’t really recommended.

-If Gief gets in on you, you have to make a few right guesses to escape and reset the situation. Basically, block until you think he’s going to go for a throw, then jump out or back dash. In any case, your strategy should revolve against not letting Gief in at all.

-As for chip killing with ultra, it’s almost always a bad idea even in other matchups. Anyone with an invincible special can counter it easily.

Echo’ing what Rainscape said.
As a Vanilla player (still) anything I could add would be dated info as I’m unaware of how it’s been effected in SUPER.

Anyhow, just general sidenotes (I’m sure someone can clarify whether what I say is now invalid due to SUPER / AE).

An unsafe but sometimes beneficial trick to know is that on Gief’s wakeup (depending on what the player does vs you being right next to him as he’s waking up) an ‘instant’ jump back roundhouse will hit him overhead and stuff certain things. It’s similar to the usual jumpback on wakeup trick bar the fact you’re relying entirely on him doing something on wakeup to begin with. If he just blocks, you’re in for a punish if they have any form of reaction (Greenhand or Roundhouse will hit you out of the air) but as far as I’m aware it’ll stuff any Lariats, normal Greenhands and mostly any Normal as the Roundhouse will connect right into his face.

Don’t try it too often.

Gief can be thrown out of all reversals bar SPD’s - In short, if you get a terrible Gief who relies on Lariat spam or any form of that low level garbage (Take note if he doesn’t know how to SPD, or doesn’t do it often) have fun throwing him all day when you’re in range. It will beat all wakeup/reversal GH, all wakeup/reversal Lariats though you will pay for it if you mistime it, or if he throws out an SPD (Including Super or Ultra). Naturally Balrog doesn’t aim to get into throw range often as it’s not his optimal distance but I find them to be almost required at times when trying to regain a lead versus a camping Gief holding back, or one jumping over you into a GH thinking you’ll backdash.

Again, don’t try throwing him too often, it’s risk vs reward with often far more risk than it’s worth, situation dependant.

In terms of general footsies, Roundouse is your friend as well as standing jabs. If you’re in optimal distance then there is no low hit he can hit you with other than sweep. Standing Jab into your OWN sweep is exceptional here though some Giefs motion SPD’s for dropped links and it will catch you if you mess up at certain ranges.

Avoid all deep specials (Especially TAP and I won’t even bother mentioning Overhead) - If you’re going to try hitting Gief with Specials, ensure they are from the tip of Balrog’s glove so pay attention to your spacing. If you for any reason doubt your special, cancel backdash is always an option and one he can’t GH you out of (You generally recover in time to block. Alternatively if he throws out an SPD attempt you’ll be able to walk forward into a Normal Punish at best).

Restrict all Specials to LIGHT version outside of Combos at all times. With that in mind:

DashLowBlow and Torpedo often cause enough pushback that Gief can never SPD you on block from them, even when Deep, though he may be able to clip you with GH at certain ranges and considering they’ve more recovery than DS and RU it’s best not to throw them out recklessly. He can and will SPD you on blocking anything other than Light DS (Glove Tip) so restrict your use of Strong & Fierce Dash / Upper to combo’s only.

Gief’s dash is horrendous in both directions so if you see a Gief peppering focus attacks up midrange/close, try above Torpedo when you’re certain he can’t recover into a neutral jump. Again, at certain ranges you’ll be pushed back well out of retaliation range but don’t do it too often.

If you have SUPER or ULTRA, it can be used to punish Lariat’s, failed SPD’s, Focus Attack attempts and also good as an AA at mid range if they attempt to jump in at you due to his slow jump, though in 99.99% of the case you would opt for a regular AA Normal or a Light Headbutt.

Regarding AA, some Gief’s have been smart enough to only jump at a range where CFierce whiffs - This results in a free SPD - Again, watch your spacing, eating an SPD for a failed AA attempt is NOT NICE. If you suspect CFierce is an out of range option, a regular Fierce will do the trick or TRADE at worst but that is better than being SPD’s or having Gief even closer.

Last but not least, on so many occasions I’ve scored a UTK on Gief who ends up with literally a pixel of health. In this scenario, he has ABSOLUTELY NO ANSWER for an EX Headbutt on his wakeup other than EX GH - If this happens you’ll either both end up at neutral frames or have the advantage. If he has no meter, it’ll 100% KO.

Again, as a Vanilla player, I have no idea how the above would result if Gief has Ultra 2 - Can that be activated on the ground and, if so, does it catch EX Headbutts?

All I can think of right now and bare in mind, not only may some of that info be false to begin with but some may not even apply to SUPER anymore so I’m just trying to add extra onto what Rain has said.

This is my updated gief matchup.

What I do is the following: Don’t give ground. Try to take the life lead, even from a chipped straight, then hold db. If he gets into range of normals, start using cr. HK, st. HK, st. HP. sparingly and start slowly gaining ground. If he jumps in, cr. HP beats everything clean if you do it right. If he does flat, block and punish accordingly. Shouldn’t be hard unless he manages to get in, which shouldn’t happen if you’re on peak condition.

Does anyone else feel like this match up has drastically changed in AE? My concern is that I can no longer punish a missed SPD with most dash punches at distances that used to be safe. Also, Giefs footsies with the jab SPD have gotten extremely frightening.

I have been toying around with some options instead of using a straight dash to punish giefs whiffed moves. I now use either dash slow smash or a dash straight low as my main punishes. However, here is where the dilemma lies. By using these two moves you get advantages of either distance or a hard knock down, but I usually miss them because most of the opportunities I have to punish a whiffed SPD is right after a jump back. Obviously this is quite situational but I believe that this is a common occurence in this match when you are trying to get away from a SPD.

This match feels much closer to a Honda or Bison style of strategy where the life lead wins the match. All three matches are played quite differently but the sentiment remains. My issue lies with getting damage once Gief has the lead. Now that headbutts are extremely punishable it becomes difficult to stop Gief from gaining all the meter he wants on top of the health lead which he is sitting on. This I am dumbfounded on how to stop. Sitting there is always an option, but I would like a viable strategy to go to when I need to get the lead back.

As far as the jab SPD in his footsie game I feel that I need some more time to adjust to the ranges and find better ways to keep him out.

Just wanted to get some ideas on how to adjust to the new Gief’s jab SPD, because I feel as if that is an absolute game changer in the match up.

Can we move this discussion to the Matchup thread? -.-