(GGXX) I have one arm and big tits - the Baiken thread

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1

I apologize but I needed something more eyecatching than just “GGXX: Baiken”.

I decided to exclusively play Baiken in GGXX for my own reasons. So I’m trying to find out what other players are doing.

My strategy:

  • run in with S.S a lot. I mean, it’s basic and goes without saying, but it works a lot better than doing nothing but jump mats that just get run under and owned.

  • I use Baiken’s sweep as anti-air sometimes. It works better than it should.

  • On that note, her C.HS is too good. After you hit with her B&B (sweep into mat, jump S-D), you can wait on the ground for them to recover and hit them with the upward slice of C.HS, and then jump cancel into ANOTHER S-D. They can FD out of this of course… but for some reason no one remembers to.

  • Tigerknee lightsabre is a decent sweep-range “I’m not sure what you’re going to do” poke. If they try to do too much, they’ll get hit.

  • I actually try to play Baiken like a regular character and not a “I’ll block and counter everything” character, because that just gets you into trouble. People bait out counters in ridiculous ways that end up working if you focus too much on the counter. I generally only use the Slash counter if they get too nasty on the poke strings, or Kick counter if I need a way out. Punch counter is only good as anti-air against certain characters (Slayer and Sol notably).

  • Parry run is good if you don’t overuse it. You should just throw it in during pressure occasionally. ie. Dash towards them and then parry run. If you expect a sweep, you can stop your dash instead with dash brake and then run in with a sweep into mat, but that’s hard.

  • Jump HS is REALLY good. Why no one uses this move is beyond me. Nutsoid priority, sick hit stun… I mean, just jump in with this move all the time if they are not jumping…

  • F+P is surprisingly good because it’s two hits. A lot of F+Ps clash with other attacks and then you actually lose advantage because you’re still recovering and they can chain out, but Baiken’s will always hit when it should. F+P alone owns scrub Sol.

  • Her super is worth the price of admission IMO. A cheap reversal if you need it. If you have full meter and the super won’t quite kill them, RC into F+HS (or just S.HS if you don’t think you’re fast enough). If you can get this in the corner, then you can combo into mat, and they’ll pretty much be paste after that.

Comments?

2

Some random stuff I’ve learned from fighting against a pretty good Baiken…

  • She can combo throw into super in the corner. This is actually very important if your opponent has little life and a burst.

  • You’re right about jump HS. More than that, though, use j.HS xx Tatami. A lot. On block it sets them up for pressure, and on hit it combos and allows you to go into dust loops and the like.

  • K counter is especially key against Bridget, as it gets you out of the flaming bear super most of the time. Another note on this matchup…do NOT, as I’ve seen many Baikens do, use P or S counter to get rid of the punching bear, as it gives Buri a free combo or at least sweep.

  • Not sure if you ever intend on playing #reload, but if you do remember that the S counter can be FRC’ed, allowing you to go into aircombos if it hits. However, do note that she was weakened greatly in that game for no particular reason…

Josh

3

i could of swore she had 2 hands…

but 1 eye…:wink:

4

i hate baiken.

baiken beats chipp for free. does pretty good against eddie, too. :frowning:

5

There’s a good Chipp player here that gives me fits. Chipp can bait out counters like no one’s business, and Baiken doesn’t have a lot of good attacks to pry Chipp off her boobs straight up. Of course, if I get lucky and land a hit, it’s over.

6

With Baiken you also really need to know when to attack when they think you’re going to do a counter, and in that time, you can land a gatling combo or something…

But it is really hard to catch up to Chipp, but when you do, he won’t like what’s gonna happen. :slight_smile:

If I feel l33t, i’ll probably do Youzansen combos after a throw in a corner. Provided I have 50% tension. It’s not hard for Baiken to obtain a lot of tension at all - and she uses it all pretty damn quickly.

7

i’ll have to see that to believe it. i’ve played chipp vs. baiken countless times against eric choi in norcal and can’t stick anything out for fear of getting tatami/sweep/jump hs’ed into a massive corner combo.

8

Eric Choi???

Isn’t he the guy that thinks air mat x525232 = Baiken offense?

Just teleport and hit him if that’s the case.

9

Then you arent playing chip properly to be blunt. Here are the main things wrong with you problem. 1, baiken shouldnt be jumping at you… ever. He is getting away with it because you are either letting him (the obvious), or your chip isnt threatening enough to him in the air to for him to stay grounded. There are some other nit picky reasons she shouldnt be jumping, but I dont feel like breaking down every instance where chip totally rapes her just for leaving the ground.

2, you should be blocking tatamis on reaction by now- end of discussion. She would have to begin it preimptively in order to hit you out of anything you have outside of a f+hs at close range. Because you know this, utalize the dash cancle and fuck with his head. Dash cancle, teleport, block string into teleport, dash > dash cancle > max range f+hs etc etc etc… trust me, they get counter hit with f+p and f+hs/2d/2hs a few times they will stop doing it.

3, why is she even getting sweeps on you? that means you are standing in one place long enough for her to get to you… do i really need to tell you how to play run away? Make that one armed bitch chase you. If she rushes you, jump. She cant do shit about it. If she even THINKS about jumping punish the shit out of her ass.

Man, I could go on and on… seriously, chip is easily one of the deepest mind game characters in GGXX. There is no reason why you shold be fearing tatami, if anything be afraid of max range 5s and 5hs… and even 5hs is beatable. I do understand being afraid of the 2d, but hell, if you block it, thats a free dp every time man-- even more choices if you IB it… Bah, screw it… am too tired to explain. I just realised i typed all this and probably still didnt give you the answer you were looking for. Your problem is too vauge for me to really adress properly. But realistically, your execution just probably sucks- no offence at all by that please. But your shit has to be damn near perfect to play chip at any level higher than mid-tier-scrub (yeah, i created that shit). And if your strategic inclination is as deep as I am gathering by your inability to deal with something as simple as tatami and j.hs then i dont think chip is the character for you… maybe sol? vv anyone?

Man… why am I even in Baikens thread… GOD… fuck baiken.

-goes to sleep-

10

I’ve come to the conclusion you have major issues with Baiken! :smiley:

hehe…

11

Stop being a patronizing asshole. My execution with Chipp is solid and I’ve been playing him for about a year or so now. Advice is welcome without all the bullshit.

  1. Well-timed tatami mats and j.hs stuff all of Chipp’s attacks. j.hs in particular beats everything except a very very well timed chipp 2HS and that risks a counter hit j.hs if you fuck up.

  2. Block strings against baiken usually risk getting counter hit counter into 60-70% combo. Teleporting risks getting hit out during the startup of the teleport or the recovery of the teleport, which lead to more tatami -> corner dust combos.

  3. Running away isn’t very feasible against baiken considering the screen space a tatami (especially IAD tatami) can cover. if i get caught, i eat a really fucking long pressure combo (and baiken will have more tension from chasing me around) which builds up my guard meter if i manage to block the whole thing, or i eat a nasty corner combo.

finally, chipp’s mind games are pretty shitty. faust has crazy high-low mixups with fdc, eddie has crazy high/low/throw mixups that lead to massive unblockables and/or combos, millia has sick crossup high-lows, sol has a godly dp, good pokes a command throw and a massive corner combo off any of those. now i love chipp, but i gotta say, his mind games are comparatively shitty. he’s got speed, a lot of good pokes and a slow command throw, so he’s solid, but he’s no mindfuck.

prowess, where the fuck do you play? i don’t know any baikens shitty enough to lose to random teleporting and running away…not on wc anyway. quit with the fucking pretentious bullshit and learn to play the game.

12

I have to agree with Pat here.

Chipp does good on Baiken, but not for ANY of the reasons Prowess said. Baiken can jump in on Chipp anytime she wants and he has no attack that will take her out.

The problem with this match is that Baiken can do so little that doesn’t get owned by simply teleporting. For one thing, she does not get to air mat ANYMORE in this match. Like… at all. Also, Chipp’s sweep is way faster than Baiken’s so he wins the footsie game. He has air-to-air superiority and better air juggle wakeup game. All Baiken has in this match is impenetrable ground-to-air defense and a combo that will fuck Chipp off IF she can get it off.

13

Ok, if you are gettin counter hit during start up time for teleports you are too close to be doing it. Thus the reason why logically you wouldnt be doing it “randomly”.

When I said “I dont need to tell you how to run” I was referring to his ability to get away once she actually forces you to be grounded and or cornered long enough to sweep you (etc). Which she shouldn’t. No, you dont play a run away game, but you establish early on in the match that you are fast enough to. As Dasrik was kind enough to point out, his sweep is faster among sevral other things. There really is no reason you should be getting swept unless you are careless.

I said your execution probably sucks because if it didnt, you would IB j.hs every time and throw the shit out of her-- or just plain jump with her. Learn to fd throw when she shallow jumps and if you dont throw you block, nothing lost nothing gained, and you still have the advantage because you have better footsies. If she has a bead on you long enough to be able to IAD and or sweepXXtatami you, you are standing still too long. Again, not literally running away, but flowing in and out of her range at will to force her to come after you and bait the counter hit.

It takes no genious to realise chip + block strings works against baiken just about as well as anyone elses-- they dont. Dont point out the obvious crap that has been established.

Chips lack of obvious high low tools is why his mind game directly effects how well he does and is almost completely player spicific. Anyone who told you otherwise is wrong. He has to be a mindfuck to be effective-- period.

And finally, what the hell kind of chipp are you playing that is even half-assed effective if you are not utalizing teleports into quick mixup and pokes into throws. There is nothing random about it, its methodical and mind racking as shit to have it done to you.

Quite frankly, fuck you if I offended you by making an open statement of probability. But it has nothing to do with my lack or presence of knowledge on the game-- I am just an ass hole when I want to be. This has been established… especially when I get into a debate about Baiken. My attitude has little to do with my assesment of your issues and more to do with the way I came off at you. And I apologise for that, trully. But the bottom line is, you couldnt figure out simple solutions to generic problems. :smiley:

And for what its worth. If her jumpin on you with X (variable) move into whatever is ever a problem, teleport. Rocket science right? Now you take out a calculator and protractor to figure out which one to use so that you arent counter hit. And again, I will stress, that if she is actually close enough to be able to enter her jump animation and strike you before you can react, YOU are the problem. I personally am not understanding why you are even letting her jump in the first place…

Have a nice day.

14

I’d just like to point out that Chipp’s sweep is actually SLOWER than Baiken’s (by 1 whole frame, big whoop). It has a shitload more range, though, and he can still start his wakes from that range if he hits with it thanks to Gamma Blade.

Prowess, whether you feel like being an asshole or not, you don’t treat somebody like shit and talk down to them when you’re offering advice. That just makes you look like an arrogant dick. I’d cool down if I were you.

Another thing, just because he may or may not use IB in certain situations doesn’t mean his execution sucks. A lot of people don’t use IB simply because they don’t think to, or they don’t know about it. I know of it, but I just don’t think to use it much (mainly because I don’t need to). Does my execution suck? Hell no. I can pull off 5 rep Dloops in realistic situations, I can Bloodsuck loop into IK w/Slayer; basically, anything I care to practice, I can pull off in a match. IB and overall execution don’t necessarily go hand-in-hand.

If it’s “obvious” that block strings w/Chipp don’t work well against Baiken, then why did you mention it to him in your previous post? Don’t contradict yourself so obviously. I also agree with Pat about teleports being too risky in certain situations. It’s not a matter of being too close or not: the opponent simply has to anticipate whether you are going to teleport or not at the end of a string and then run up and hit you. Tada, CH, damage time. Don’t forget that there’s recovery time at the end of it too, so unless you’re just trying to run away from your opponent, they can just run up to you and hit you as the teleport ends. Chipp simply cannot afford to take any sort of risk like that in a real match, he takes too much punishment.

I should also note that I’ve never seen any remotely effective Chipp player who actually tried to use his teleports in their mixup game. It’s simply too risky; guess wrong and you get fucked for most of your life. The majority focus on a strong air game and staying mobile, combined with quick pokes, wakeup pressure, and the occasional lockdown. Teleporting never needs to come into the equation; just learn your frame advantages on attacks and you’re good to go.

Been a while since I played Chipp seriously, but it’s established that aside from certain situations, teleporting = no-no. Chipp always wants to err on the side of low-risk. If he had better stamina, I wouldn’t doubt that his playstyle might change entirely overnight, but as of now, that’s how it is.

15

BoF I understand you point on avoiding risks, given. But its not as simple as “run up ala ch” and you know it. I dont know who chips you have been playing that dont utalize teleports, and that is being straight up honest. They are not good enough to be abusable, but the ability to move simi instantaneous and get in behind around and above some one is too good not to use at all.

You teleport sparingly when you are outside of thier range, and you never teleport obviously unless they are safely in a position that does not allow them to retaliate. Example, a counter hit 5hsXXteleport where ever for mixup is safe. Even more safe is its f+hs. Forcing them to wake up into j.hs via teleport is easy too (although a well timed f+p from baiken may trade with it) but she still has to see it coming. There is no reason I should have to sit here and explain to you how to teleport safely man. And I am still not buying that “teleport = no-no”, seriously, who the hell are you playing? Not to mention just standing outside of sweep range and doing it is safe as hell; unless the person was already in dash animation they cant do jack.

regular strategicly executed teleports are very good. Invisible>teleports = godly. But both have to be done properly so you arent “ch” out of start up and lag time. Again I will say, there aint shit random about it. Its meticulous, but nothing unthought out or nearly “obviously” unsafe. Bcause a random chip = dead one.

And on IB, if you dont use it you should. Over here we have already been practicing IBing whole strings for a while now. And its too valuable not to think about it now, it means your jump in game is gone unless you are chip millia or jam. And if he isnt fd throwing he was a joke anyway…

BoF are you ganna be down here on Apr 11th? I wanna get owned by Sol, lol.-- no… seriously though.

*Edit: and I dont remember saying block strings work against baiken :confused: I must have been in lala land (or maybe speaking generally or something). Sorry about that. *

16

I’m just bored.

i would take this mans advice.

From Mvc1 rankings:

Whether its baiken vs chipp, mvc1 rankings, or julia and tiers of tekken 4, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

17

Then that is your own personal inclination. It has nothing to do with the info being presented HERE. Furthermore, clearly I am not without error because I am human, and I also tend to be pretty opinionated about things when I am talking about them. But it doesnt mean I wont except when I am wrong, obviously and plainly. If you feel anything I say is incorrect, then say so, and be prepared to explain it, because I WILL cross examine you, its just my nature.

Deal with it and or ignore it. But if you cant present information that contradicts it without flaw, dont be mad because I analyze and dissect it. When and if I find that I am dead wrong, I will back the hell off and give you your 30. BoF and Dasrik have both been there with me, and I respect the hell out of them. But you better be damn sure if I dont agree with something either of them say I will speak on it just the same. I really dont give a fuck if you like me. It only happens when I debate, but my attitude is a flaw in my character, I admit that, but umm… I dont care enough about you kids to sugar coat it.

-powers up to patronizing asshole lvl 2- :stuck_out_tongue:

18

I’m talking mostly about the few successful Chipp players I’ve seen, mostly in match vids (and yes, I’m including the Japanese). Teleporting just doesn’t happen much at all.

The key word is “semi”. You are vulnerable at the beginning and ending of the teleport. The only time you ever want to do it is when your opponent is occupied doing something else, and if your opponent sees where you tend to teleport, then they will bait your ports and punish you. It works well against Baiken because her offense just leaves her open to it. Even if you get behind your opponent, you’re not exactly in an advantageous position unless they did something with incredibly poor recovery.

…WHY would you teleport if you earned a CH on either of those moves? I’d just tigerknee Alpha Blade for extra damage and knockdown for wakes. You’re teleporting to mixup (mixups never give guaranteed damage). That’s just a waste.

If you wanna use j.H for wakes, you should just use his FC j.2K wakes instead, since they can force crossups and all sorts of pretty shit.

You’re right, since teleporting safely (from your examples) is either pointless, or not possible.

Recovery time on your teleport says otherwise. If you’re just standing outside of her sweep range and then teleporting, what are you accomplishing? Any ground teleport that isn’t backwards will leave you open, and an air teleport doesn’t really give you that many attack options (she can just 6P or backdash on you). There’s just no use to it.

The thing is that the few scenarios you’ve suggested for “safe” teleporting are pointless. For the most part, teleporting isn’t safe or practical. If it were, Chipp would be a much, MUCH better character because he’d be able to get around the screen with no fear. As it is, it’s not safe in most situations where you’d want to use it.

Also, quit bringing up the random part, because I haven’t said a thing about being random with Chipp. As you would say, that’s obviously a bad idea.

That’s a waste of time. You don’t need to IB an entire string most of the time, just the important part of it. If Sol runs up to me and does K-S©-2S, I don’t need to IB the whole thing, and doing so may actually be a bad idea because I leave more instances to fuck up and get myself hurt (if I do the block too late and can’t defend in time). I just need to IB the 2S so he doesn’t get any frame advantage and I can attack back.

The problem with IBing everything is that it’s a lot easier to get hurt that way. It doesn’t accomplish anything aside from leaving more openings for you to fuck up your timing and get punished for it. You have to stay conservative and leave as few openings as possible.

I don’t see that, necessarily. Just adds a different dimension to it. Just jump away if they’re going to attack back and make them whiff.

Here’s a question for you; who are you, exactly? I’ve never heard of you. Aside from your antics on SRK, you’re basically a nobody. For you to run around calling someone else a joke…well, that makes you a joke. I assume that by your April 11th comment you’re talking about Final Round? So are you from Georgia then? Florida? Who do YOU play with that makes you so great? Your level of mediocrity is at stake here! Inquiring minds want to know!

19

I’ve played a lot of good Baiken fighters and I fool around with her myself. The one thing I’ve noticed about her is. She is one of the best characters to pull off the instant kill. It’s not easy for me to describe, but by doing an aerial floor mat, the opponent is stunned for a second, if you’re close enough you can pull off her instant kill while they’re in the effect of getting struck by the floor mat.

Another one I’ve seen is just by throwing the opponent and performing the instant kill. it might be a glitch, but as far as I’ve seen it could never be blocked.

20

This thread had a lot of misleading info from more then just prowess.