So hard to find legit voices on the internet where everyone has a mic.
Its not about not supporting Ponder, its about the game launching in 2 months and the netcode work probly almost done by now. If they say they are going to make a 2nd version of MvC3 then im all for reopening the discussion, but as it relates to MvC3 this chapter of GGPO discussion is as good as done.
Just a great session playing ssf4 where I was definitely playing underwater…i wonder what mind games this will add to mvc3…I can’t wait!!!
I don’t see the problem with continually bitching about the net code until its fixed. While it may be set in stone for mvc3 v1, there is more certainly will be a mvc3 v2.
Fuck, tvc got 2 versions and that game barely sold any copies.
If people bitch about how bad the net code is in fighting games as much as they bitch about megaman in mvc3, it HAS to reach capcom’s ear. Funny thing is that capcom is basically telling people to STFU about megaman in mvc3 lol but when we say bad thing about net code, its utter silence on their end and then it changes subject.
But… it did. That’s what the interview was about…
that little snip was not an interview, it was just seth commentating about GGPO. It was actually taken off capcomunity from a forum post. I actually posted in the same thread trying to get Seth to answer questions but then he did the capcom dance and gave me a run around.
And nothing Seth said in that article is new. He’s just saying he likes GGPO for the billionth time.
Capcom isn’t mentioning ANYTHING about how bad their games run online outside of Japan. Thats what I want to hear.
To be honest, if I was Capcom I wouldn’t go around talking about how bad the netcode is. People could find out after they make my game one of the top sellers next year. However, if it’s on the same quality as SSF4 (which is playable) and not like SNK’s shenanigans then I’m good. And I fully support a post release tune-up, after they see how the game handles in the real world. My biggest fears are what happens when we get a full 8plyr lobby going. Sure SSF4 dumps the ‘savings’ on spectators, but even then all it takes is one bad connection for strange things to happen.
If you think about it, they can’t talk it up either, or every halfwit upset they can’t play Hawaii from Nova Scotia will bitch about how capcom lied to them.
Rocks and hard places.
ironically, Capcom set themselves up for a fall by releasing games with better netcode and promoting the fact shamelessly. it allowed their consumers to see what good netcode looks like and when combined with their failure to execute on the netcode with their biggest and newest titles in years. frankly, the criticism is well deserved.
on a side note, Ono should send everyone who bought this “half of a game” series a thank you note for saving his job:rofl:. in any event, i suspect Capcom will to continue to remain ominously silent about the quality of their netcode for MvC3 until the cash from the pre-orders and day 1 buyers end up in the corporate coffers.
What games do you speak of? I don’t remember Capcom hyping netcode.
HDR: WE RUNNING ROLLBACK BITCHES!
MvC2: WE RUNNING ROLLBACK BITCHES!
Final Fight Double Impact: WE RUNNING GGPO BITCHES!
SF4: Uh…netcode? What netcode? Never heard of it…
So you’re listing the 2D games despite what was said?
why would namco bother using ggpo for DBZ if it meant that it wasn’t gonna work? That would be a failed investment and I’m almost positive that they actually tested ggpo for DBZ first before approving it. Just like how capcom tested GGPO prior to making STHDR. Would you invest in something before seeing if it worked properly or not? When you sell a big business a product like this, they ALWAYS want a demo to see what they’re getting and on top of that, there are usually a few programmers around to break down why it works and whether or not it can be implemented properly.
Its not like, oh ggpo, good stuff we want it so where do I sign!!! the shit gets tested and if its good enough, it gets bought.
The whole thing about 3d stuff is just a load a crap. When DBZ gets raves reviews about net play, what other excuse can capcom fall back on? Ponder has even mentioned SEVERAL times that GGPO could work for sf4 and that capcom refused to use it. Fuck what capcom says, they want your money and its obvious they will do anything for it. Even if it means dodging questions about the online play to prevent bad sales.
If ttt2 gets GGPO and mvc3 is bad online, we need filthierich to work for capcom instead of namco.
Epic rant is epic, but I gotta say; wouldn’t having GGPO work for Capcom’s 3D games make more money and capture more loyalty from fans? I’m ebbing toward there being good reasons for not using it, they wouldn’t avoid it for the sake of pissing people off. People getting mad is a byproduct, but not a goal. That’s more Activision and EA’s speed.
lol, its not a rant. That’s how business is fucking done. You try the shit out before you actually make a big investment.
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**It turns out the timing couldn’t have been more perfect: in August of last year Capcom took notice of GGPO and arranged a meeting where we discussed the technology, how it worked, and particularly why it was ideally suited for arcade games. Other genres have used similar latency hiding techniques, but GGPO is the first to prove that they could be used for the most latency sensitive games, around the world, on the public Internet. Capcom was impressed and convinced Backbone that STHD needed similar technology in order to replicate the arcade experience online.
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the reasons they won’t use it? 1, capcom is too stupid or has too much ego to let go of their current net code which has failed outside of japan EVERY TIME. HF, cvs2, 3s, tvc, sf4 all done by capcom, all bad om the usa. 2, monetary constraints but I find that hard to believe. 3, time constraints and if that is the case, why is good net code so far down on your list of priorities capcom?
also read right after where its highlighted, it specifically says OTHER GENRES have used similar concepts. Stop listening to crapcom, they’re just full of shit.
that’s about what i think. It would almost certainly be cheaper to use than developing something of their own, too. if it worked.
regardless of how angry people get they’re not going to intentionally waste money just to be stubborn. There’s pretty much certainly some serious technical problems involved.
Edit: note that ‘serious technical problems’ != ‘impossible’
Also, calling them stupid isn’t exactly gonna make them listen either. I think we can all say ‘yes, capcom, we want ggpo style code always!’
Oh you mean the same serious technical problems the western developers solved in 01, those serious problems lol? That shit has been handled LONG ago and there are no problems here.
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I was listening to Alphaism radio, they had Ponder (creator of GGPO netcode) as a guest speaking and he talked about GGPO for SF4, and basically he was encouraging people who like the no input lag style of netcode that GGPO is to post on these forums, because according to him Capcom listen. According to Ponder GGPO is possible for the SF4 series, and that we should make our voices heard, afterall Capcom has licensed the code, they can and should use it and improve on it.
and if you want EVEN further proof, you can listen to actual podcast by checking out the alphaism radio thread on shoryuken.com. The actual podcast is still available for dl-ed.
ggpo works for 3d games. If it didn’t, Namco wouldn’t have announced ggpo for DBZ. You don’t think they did a play test first to see if it work properly? I’m sure by now they’ve done several play tests over the net and if those failed, they would of scrapped GGPO for DBZ. Since its not scrapped, I’m sure it works very well. Thats how the big companies operate. If you want a big company to buy something, you gotta let them test it to see if it will fit their needs. If ggpo ran like shit garbage, it wouldn’t have been used for DBZ so 3d games CAN use ggpo. Some of you need the final word and that won’t happen until DBZ is dropped. I for one won’t be fooled by some run around lingo aka the capcom dance.
Read between the lines people, the answer is there. GGPO does work for 3d games and capcom is just duping their customers but that wouldn’t be the first nor last time capcom has done that.
The fact that a game is using it, and that Namco is using it to advertise a game doesn’t prove it works. Wait till a game comes out before you judge how well it runs online of all things.
yea you’re right.
They would buy ggpo and not test it and only test it for DBZ when the game actually drops on release day and that would be the first and only test they ever made.
Gimme a break…they tests this shit folks. If ggpo would never work with a 3d game, Namco would of not let it get this far. Just like how they test hit boxes, they test the net code just as hard. Well, other companies not named capcom test the net code just as hard.
Process of deduction.
Last week I had the opportunity to work with Dan Halpern at Backbone to check in on they’ve networking stack and provide some pointers for improvement. We hooked GGPO up to the same latency simulation tools you’ve read about on Gary’s blog and compared it to STHD. I’m happy to report that the Backbone code held up very well. At all test points, GGPO measured only slightly better than STHD on the impact latency had on the duration and intensity of the visual glitches causes by the latency hiding code (i.e. the dreaded “rollback” effect). This is great news for people concerned about the quality of STHD networking. It means that there’s most likely no architectural reason why STHD cannot be as good as or even surpass GGPO when it is released. It also suggests that the reports by some users of GGPO greatly outperforming STHD are most likely a matter of tuning or minor bug fixes. I made two suggestions on how I thought Backbone should spend their time improving their code.
http://www.capcom-unity.com/s-kill/blog/2008/08/29/ggpo_networking_guru_talks_sf_hd_remix_
THEY TEST THE SHIT FOLKS!!!