could it be that online is so bad that we would rather play offline? Think about it, by expressing not to play online, we’re telling developers to fix it. Its pretty clear
all antics aside, the community is shifting. Gods garden has had multiple online tournaments and EVO is doing theirs in a few days. I don’t have a problem with that, the community changes all the time. Hopefully, news about how bad the online tournament will be in the USA will reach capcom. This is a perfect chance for them to study the netcode.
You’re trying to help scrubs…by creating scapegoats and humiliation towards others in the process, and make everyone look bad. If you’re trying to get the word out, do it in a positive way. I mean, just look at what you’re saying. D: I support all of this, except the negativity and stuff. You’ll turn off plenty of others too, including your target.
BTW jed, check the last paragraph of his first post on this page. I PROBABLY should quote this stuff, but…until my new notebook ships, it’s a pain in the ass. (EDIT: NOTE HOW MY READING SKILLS SUCK, thanks above.)
The drive for DLC has nothing to do with new players. It’s simply the direction the industry as a whole is now taking. DLC is a lucrative business. DLC has taken root on just about every genre there is with varying results. Other competitive genres like shooters, RTSs, racers, have DLC that often expands upon the game. Even non-competitive genres like JRPGs, WRPGs, platformers, action games, survivor horror and the like receive DLC packs. Like it or not, it’s a practice that has become standard in modern gaming and won’t be going away.
I honestly don’t see why fighters should be the expectation. DLC could potentially end the sequel stagnation that a lot of capcom fighters suffer through. Why continuity pump out retail version after retail version when balance chances and gamebreaking glitches/bugs could be fixed with a patch? Or if they wish to add a new characters, stages, modes, and music why not have it as DLC? Considering how much money a dedicated player would spend to get good at the game be it chucking quarters on an arcade machine, spending $150-$300+ on a stick, paying for a decent pad, or even playing a tourney level player for tutoring sessions, why should paying a small sum to add to the game be out of the question?
One thing to keep in mind about DLC is that’s it’s there if you want. Capcom isn’t gonna hold a gun to your head and force you to get it. You won’t be losing anything if you chose to skip out on it. If your really adamant about it, DLC heavy games usually get a “game of the year” edition a year after the original release will all the DLC content on the disc. Everybody wins.
Every community has it’s bad apples. It’s something I come to expect. Those guys don’t stick around for very long anyway so don’t waste any concern over them.
The problem here is when your supporting something your passionate about talking down a sect of the community or down playing aspects they find more important is not the ideal way to gain supporters. What is gained by insulting and humiliating the very audience your trying to educate? The audience that could have supported it becomes alienated and subject your trying to raise awareness of gets a negative stigma. Laying the blame on them is also misguided. Your potentially blaming a group of people that possibly had nothing to do with the problem at hand. Niitsuma said in an interview that a planned mode for the online was cut due. Sven on the unity boards has said the game had to be released this fiscal year. This leads to me believe that some things might have been to be left out or left as is due to time constraints. There’s a lot things we don’t know about in regards to this game’s development that affected it. It’s not something we can blame solely on the “scrubs”
For the final bit, it doesn’t surprise me at all. MvC3 is a fanservice game. The developers spend a lot of time to add the details to accurately portray the characters and please the fans of those characters and the universe/series it spawned from. Speaking as a Marvel fan I’ll be fucking pissed if they added Spider-Man and not have any of the elements that make Spider-Man who he is. Mega Man being a highly popular Capcom character and the company’s mascot at that I can completely understand the outcry. Having a fanservice game without one it’s most recognizable characters would be a shame
I’m a “new player” more or less, but I don’t really take offense to anything shoultz says because I can read between the lines and know that he’s not talking about me. Dude’s just passionate.
Anyway:
The only way to truly know how a character works, how to use it, and how to fight against it, is to experiment with it yourself. I do not like the idea of shelling out money for characters I may not even like to use just to get needed match experience. At all. It’s like getting a chess board without all of the pieces.
This mostly boils down to how DLC is implemented though. If we get, say, moderately priced complete character/balance packs spaced several months or a year apart that add what full-fledged retail updates used to (like an SF4->SSF4 caliber update) as DLC, then no harm no foul. The pessimist in me, however, expects individual characters to be doled out on a more frequent basis, milking us for more $, and complicating tournaments (making sure every station has every DLC pack and such). Might as well make the damn game a subscription service at that point. Do not want.
I haven’t been playing GGPO Super Turbo/VSav/anything that long but never have I experienced the kind of bizzare shit that happens in console fighters online…games that run at a quarter or half-speed, dropped inputs, thinking you blocked something only to get hit because of lag…and that’s why I’m all for GGPO netcode in MvC3. I really hope it’s a neat little surprise that the devs have worked into the game, but if they aren’t going to announce it soon, it’s safe to say GGPO isn’t happening.
I keep hearing shit like “hurr durr, there’s no substitute for offline play” - easy to say if you live in an area like NYC or SoCal with a large amount of FG players and a thriving arcade in the area that’s no less than an hour away, not so much if you’re like me and you live in a fairly small city without a big community of fighting game players (even worse now that it’s become segmented, but that’s another story) and now no decent arcade scene. There’s no way to get a totally lag-free connection either no matter how hard you try, I get that…but why settle? I agree with Shoultz and I agree with Jed. The technology has been tested through players such as myself. It’s not perfect, but in my honest opinion it’s still better than anything Arc System Works, Capcom, Namco, and SNK Playmore have come up with internally.
Online play is here to stay, as evidenced by the online tournaments and now Evo having an online qualifier. Don’t ridicule it for being shitty without wanting to make it better.
which is no reason for consumers to stop insisting on improvement and innovation when companies underachive with netcode.
you’re right, it is like politics. however, i’m not so sure about the rest of your contention that we’re all on the same page and i mean it in a substantive way, not lip service. in any event, one can buy or play any game they like. one can support GGPO or not. i’m not suggesting otherwise. the only thing everyone needs to do is voice their displeasure frequently and en masse when confronted by bad netcode.
lastly, it just an observation, but i find it interesting that many on claim the FG business has changed and online is the future, but when confronted with average to bad netcode. ironically, the players responses run the gamut from philosophical, apologetic, apathetic or even worse, ignorant. OTOH, if we’re talking about the response of players towards an OP character or bad box art. they’re storming the gates of Capcom, replete with pitchforks and torches, like it’s the Bastille.
let’s recap…players aren’t accountable when they don’t insist on better netcode. companies aren’t accountable to players when they fail to innovate and improve netcode. in short, no one is accountable for anything. is that how you young guys roll these days? LOL…yup, we’re all on the same page here.
He never said the company isn’t accountable. =/ He (and I) said blaming the community isn’t really appropriate.
Blame Cappy all you want though, because THEY make the decisions, and we have no idea what they’re based upon nor do we need to really. Maybe it’s paranoia and/or conservatism. xD
Is false context how you (insert random assumption of age) (insert gender) roll?
Still not understanding why “crying over xx character” instead of netcode is so suprising. Hell, I’d cry if we only had 5 characters with good netcode. That’s just no fun.
I’m aware of that. Assuming that takes the Blazblue approach to it’s DLC characters access to the character won’t be completely lost. Just being able to play against the character in question would be enough for me. At least analysis on the character can still be make even if I’m not at the wheel.
Not sure what age had to do with it but ‘okay’. I’m fairly old, though. Relatively.
I was very meticulous with my wording in my last post on the matter, but the last two replies to it shows that my approach failed somewhat… eh, whatcha gonna do? shrugs shoulders
If I were to go in depth with my personal beliefs for the gaming industry, you’d know I am a bigger proponent for online gaming than even the people arguing for good netcode in this thread. I even alluded to the greater contradiction at hand in my last big post, though it was waved off. Thing is, since I realize we’re all generally on the same side, I chose to highlight the flowery ‘one voice’ solution. We really shouldn’t point fingers at community members.
Umehara: Yeah. But now we have XBL/PSN. So even if there aren?t a lot of people playing it here, I think we can create the necessary environment to take on the US.** I tried playing online in America before, and the lag is really horrible there.**** So the top players in the US don?t have a choice but to get together ** and play in person. So in that respect, I think Japan has an advantage. There may be a large gap now, but I have confidence that we can catch up eventually.
*
You don’t need Daigo to know that playing fighting games online in America is not even an option, offline is just the way to go by default and NOT by choice for a whole lot of people.
How can anyone argue against that? Now I am interested to read what this thread is about, only read this last page out of curiousity but I did not get much out of it.
DO you think it might be possible that companies are fully aware of GGPO, allowing it, and possibly the reason it’s still around BECAUSE it contributes towards perpetuating the fighting game community?
Wasn’t there another game recently from Namco (I’m not sure) that came out saying that they would be using GGPO netcode for a 3D game? I don’t really buy in to the whole story that it doesn’t work with 3D models… It’s doable!
