that’s not very fair nor is it true. There are 2 sides to capcom fighters, you have the casual crowd and the tournament crowd. The casual crowd by far has the bigger voice so what they cry for is acknowledged first. Since the tournament crowd is the minority, typically what we cry for is of minor concern.
Capcom HAS to acknowledge the tournament crowd better. I played mvc2 on and off for 10 years. Bought the game on DC, pumped quarters into their cabs. How long did a casual player touch their game for? 1 week? yet they’re willing to listen to these guys and allow them to have a stronger input towards the games? More so than tournament players who play them for a decade and inherently understand the game 1000x better.
Until the casual market side of fighting games demand god like net code, it will forever be a minor concern in terms of sheer numbers. The ggpo for mvc3 thread on capcomunity, scrub player central, is only 2 pages long. That shows you how much they care about net play when their get mega man in mvc3 thread is like 100 pages long @ this point.
If it were only good players to allow input towards capcom, the major concern for this game would of been net play. Not getting mega man into mvc3. Its so bad over @ capcom unity that they’re actually arguing over which megaman gets into the game. Come the fuck on…
That’s understandable…it’s important to a lot of people, and has to be a major concern for CAPCOM. (I couldn’t care less though) Although netcode is a big concern, most people don’t understand how it works, or even what GGPO is (and probably haven’t used it, or played HDR/acknowledged its existence in BB/MvC2 etc). I don’t think trying to educate a large crowd on something like that is worth anyone’s time. Besides, I’m pretty sure Capcom barely takes advice from such a wild place, or even visits often; we know they come here too, and most likely have seen this thread. They have taken notes from specific high-level players in the past.
Just that it shouldn’t be heartbreaking to you that people care about characters more than online before the game’s out. That’s not going to change, it’s justified. I don’t like it either.
I dunno why people still crying about netcode. whatever sf4 uses is GOOD SHIT. compared the trash we had before(cvs and 3s). Id be happy if marvel3 is as good as sf4 online. I am always green ping and generally have no problem playing against most people(not counting overseas)
Maybe… some games just aren’t meant to played in an environment where lag severely effects the very basis of the game? Games where frames are paramount will never be perfected through a network (maybe LAN at best). GGPO or not.
I think people pleased with SSF4’s netcode are just enjoying what they have compared to the alternative examples, not so much calling it the ‘the best standard’ or anything. By default we all want better netcode, I’m concerned with this false factionhood stemming from this conversation.
Your passion for good netcode is heartwarming. I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I will continue to lie to myself about the possibility of good netcode for this game, because it’s all I have to look forward to.
Mario Kart has awful online, but because the experience does not need to be precise it is difficult to notice. Mario Kart projects where you will be based on where you are and then updates it over time, so if someone is lagging you still see them driving normally. Eventually the online updates where you should actually be, which cars to jump around sometimes. If you have ever played battle mode online, people teleport all over the place during it.
I never played The Conduit online, but my hunch is a FPS’s online requires much less precision than a fighting game.
I have almost 500 hours into that game, and I will say the online is decent. However, it is not peer to peer. MHT uses dedicated servers for part of the online (I believe everything but the actual hunts, which is P2P), which is why the game actually has a monthly fee in Japan. Capcom was also lazy, and aside from the other players and the big beasty you are fighting against, nothing in the game is synced. All gathering-type items are personal to your system, as are the minor monsters you fight against. Monster Hunter is also not very fast paced (in terms of input), so it can have a small bit of delay without causing too many problems. If you mess around attacking other players in the game though, it becomes much more apparent that the netcode would not be adequate for any sort of PvP.
yes, mvc2 is already fast enough offline and with additional frame skipping online, it becomes unplayable. However, there is no excuse to be using an input delay based net code like ssf4 uses over a ggpo style one.
alternative examples? How do you compare 2 pieces of shit? if you say ssf4 is better than t6, you’re still comparing 2 turds to one another. Regardless of which turd is better, its still shit @ the end of the day and thats what I’ve been trying to get across. Somewhere along the line, people forgot they were comparing turds.
ssf4 is better than t6, sc4, its good net code! wrong, they’re all bad net codes no matter what and saying ssf4 is the king of the turds isn’t much of an honor.
Daigo was recently playing @ the capcom of USA offices and he mentioned how bad the net code was in the USA. Open your eyes people, I’ve never heard 1 top player come out and say ssf4 is awesome online in the USA! and if you have, please post some evidence.
You think anyone-besides that one guy >_>-is really disagreeing? =/ We know it’s baaaad, we get ittt. You seem to have skipped RIGHT past what Kalyx was sayin’. I agree with him/her though, mostly because I am one of those people, and I see them everywhere.
Don’t blame the community supporting companies for those producing games with lackluster netcode; you’re just throwing wood into a forest fire. You’d think they would, I dunno, test it for latency? (There’s no reason for them to keep it the same that wouldn’t warrant news about it in magazines and pissed reviewers, leading to bad scores and sales. “Sorry guys, this game will have very laggy online.”)
No one’s telling them to keep it the same, and they KNOW about SSF4’s netcode. How could they not? =/
That’s how it is in every game, every genre; most HAVE moved on. Capcom has their reasons, but don’t blame anyone else for it. I do want to know why, myself.
Why people like to settle for what is shit? When there is WAY BETTER netcodes out there that can work in 3d environment. Capcom has been using the same netcode for the past few years (besides the ports from Backbone which uses Backbone’s GGPO-like netcode).
All me and and shoultz is asking for is a rollback based netcode and not one based on input lag. Using input lag as a base for net code is a horrible decision no matter how you look at it.
Input lag changes timing on combos, normals, reversals, and on blocking. Input lag can change the game if it is bad enough. And in the versus series timing is more important than the bland fest of ssf4. So why should we settle for input lag?
Well all we can do about it is be vocal. Boycotting is out of the question since poor sales would probably just see Capcom drop the series rather than fix the netcode and we would never overcome the casual sales anyway. So we settle for playing the game offline rather than not playing the game at all. I’m pretty sure everyone wants roll-back netcode considering its superior in every way.
If you read SRK every time one of these net play topics come up, the majority of the community is not aware of the problems nor the differences between ssf4 and ggpo online and people continually to assume ssf4 is great online.
You think this is brand new or something? if capcoms tests their shit, why is cvs2 and ssf4 damn near the same online even though being 10 years apart? To prevent bad reviews about net play to affect sales, they sweep it under the rug and force people to buy the game on release day so they can @ least get all the 1st day buyers. Look what KOF 12\98um\02um\ssf4 6 have done prior to release, clam about the net code and fuck what the reviews are. I know preppy calls that a logical fallacy, I look it as spotting a habit. I used to work for a shady business man, I know how to give people the run around so I can damn sure spot it when I see it.
Prior to releasing the game, you already know how well online is going to work. They knew first hand sf4 was gonna be bad in the USA\world and released it anyway. Cause they don’t really give a fuck about their customers and just want a buck.
I can only blame the new player influence. Thanks to them, we’re now seeing easier games to allow them to compete cause they asked for it, as well as DLC. So yea, I can blame them. Since they’re the biggest voice, and obviously they’re getting their way, they’re not asking for the right things. How the fuck does DLC become a capcom staple before good net code?
Maybe we should just ask Keits to relay our question(s) about online play to Seth for the next interview. He might be willing to divulge a little information…
sven\seth K have also came out and said multiple times they’re advocates of GGPO. Those guys want it in the games however, they have no power to push it on the company. Its the big wigs @ capcom that are dictating what gets used and what doesn’t and I’ve never heard capcom EVER say, we know how bad sf4 is online for the rest of the world. Not once.
If you keep pestering your boss, you’re gonna get fired so I don’t think they can bug their bosses about it anymore than they already have. All we can do is harass the developers like Ono about the technology and bug him about why its not being used.
if the online was good, they should be up in arms about it cause its a huge selling point. They’ve pretty much dodged all our current questions about the subject so I expect online to be as good as sf4.
Dude, DLC coming to MvC3 isn’t because of “new players”, or even the community. This generation of games enlisted DLC from the start, saw its success, and feasted on the money it brought. CAPCOM is taking advantage of that, while keeping the fans’ wants in mind. I’m pretty sure not many people just started asking “more on-disc content for more $?” and if they did, it didn’t suddenly start when some newcomers joined a forum suited for the fighting genre most other genre-specific players don’t really care about.
“New players” pertains to who exactly? SRK isn’t the ENTIRE WORLD. There’s been the casual and the hardcore picking up fighters for years, during the times when arcades were full of life; of course there are “new players”, and NOT just here. Those people matter just as much to CAPCOM as the hardcore veterans to fighters during the marketing phase, and same goes with other genres.
The new players thing is getting very, very sickening. Yes, I’m upset that some newcomers are screwing with the order of things, but discrimination and separation isn’t what solves anything. Is this really what you’d want SRK and the new MvC3 forum to be like? It went from “fuck TvC” to “fuck CAPCOM” to “fuck new players”. >_>
Before you ask Cappy why past netcode sucks, think about the attitude you’re presenting to them. Do they REALLY want that?
It’s just like politics: people are heard best when they talk in one voice. If we’re busy splitting ourselves up over a case we all actually agree on, there’s no voice. Please don’t crap on me for getting games with bad netcode. I don’t base my purchases on just netcode, especially fighting games (as I have a bro. and friends to play with offline on occasion). Nor will I buy a game with rollback netcode to ‘reward’ a developer for using it - when I otherwise wouldn’t have bought the game anyway (“Get Final Fight, support GGPO!”). It’s more complicated than chastising people for enjoying what they have. That’s way not fair, people! “lol”
But let’s say our actions do factor into the kind of netcode they’d use:
Isn’t this the community of communities that stresses ‘grassroots’ gatherings, ‘fight clubs’, and organized tournaments? How is any of that encouraging better netcode? Think about it…
Shoultzula didn’t mention anything about DLC in his last few statements so you to bring it up just made you wasted time typing a paragraph, and me this sentence
New Players in Shoultz’ case are the ones who play ssf4 and tvc as their first competive game and the re-releases on new the consoles casually and these new players think they’re know it alls in the games before 2001. I don’t know it all in the alpha games or vampire savior or jojo’s yet I can tell when someone is saying bullshit about them.
Their sick of know it alls that only played ssf4 and tvc competively saying complete bullshit about the other games.
We are passionate about good netcode it gives scrubs a better playing field and learn better. if the scrubs are better that means everyone will get better which means better comp everywhere. Good netcode is not for us. GOOD NETCODE IS FOR EVERYONE. and there are plenty of examples why capcom excuses are bullshit on the netcode.