Getting intimate with Hulk's standing M

[Liquid]

Hulk’s standing attack is one of Hulk’s best attacks. This mainly because it has armor, long reach, and faster start-up and armor start-up than his only other armored normal. Standing :h:’s armor kicks in on frame 6 and the attack becomes active on frame 15 while standing ’s armor becomes active on frame 3 and the attack becomes active on frame 13. This difference in how fast the armor becomes active is significant because the fastest :l: in the game is 3 frames; so as long as you press at the same time or earlier than your opponent does their input, ’s armor will be there. To further illustrate the speed in which the armor kicks in, consider the following: When you input a jump, it takes 4 frames for your character to become airborne. That’s 33% more time than that armor takes to become active.

Unfortunately, due to the difficulty of its use, its seemingly inconsistent nature, and the ease of use provided by Hulk’s standing :h:, standing is grossly under-used by many Hulk players. In fact, I have posted many times of how amazing this move is and yet I feel like I use it much less than I should. To remedy this, I’ve taken the time to experiment with the entire cast’s move-list to see what causes Hulk’s standing to miss.

For everyone’s convenience, I’ve started a thread specifically for this and broken the information up into several posts so it’s easier to quote specific pieces. I’ve given my initial impressions and general experience with this move for each character, but if you want me to expand on a particular character – please feel free to ask questions or argue with me or expand. I’ll answer them if I can and modify my entries for each character as appropriate.

**A note you should read to for better understanding: **Many of the moves that I listed as causing standing to whiff can actually be hit by it depending on what point of the move the character is at when Hulk’s becomes active. For instance, Wesker can be hit during his c.:l:, but because there is the potential for it to miss (and it’s impossible to avoid this on purpose), I’ve simply listed it as a whiff. It’s also important to note that even if you suspect that will whiff on an opponent, you can usually do Gamma Charge (AA) and punish the opponent if they press a button in reaction to your whiff.

Quick reference list:
Full use: Akuma, Captain America, Haggar, Hulk, M.O.D.O.K., Magneto*, Sentinel, Spencer*, Thor

Anti-air only: Amaterasu, Arthur, Chris*, Chun-Li*, C. Viper, Dante, Deadpool, Dormammu, Felicia, Iron Man*, Jill, Phoenix, Ryu*, She-Hulk, Spiderman, Storm, Super Skrull*, Taskmaster*, Trish, Wesker, Wolverine, X-23

Do not use: Doctor Doom, Hsien-Ko*, Morrigan, Shuma-Gorath, Tron*, Viewtiful Joe, Zero
*See details below

[Liquid]

Full use recommended vs. the following characters

Akuma:

Akuma’s c.:h: is his only attack that avoids Hulk’s . I definitely recommend using this attack often until Akuma’s learn that c.:h:, :s: combo works against this. Can be used as anti-air.

Captain America:

Cannot crouch beneath. Use often.

Haggar:

Cannot crouch beneath. Use often.

Hulk:

Cannot crouch beneath. Use often, but make sure you don’t punch into his armor.

M.O.D.O.K.:

Cannot crouch beneath. Use often.

Sentinel:

Cannot crouch beneath. Use often but be careful about his armor.

Spencer:

Cannot crouch beneath. Use often.

Thor:

Thor gets hit while crouching and while doing any of his crouching attacks, except when he is doing a max distance c.:l:. Because the spacing is so specific, I highly recommend using often in this match-up.

[Liquid]

Anti-air only use recommended vs. the following characters

Amaterasu:
Amaterasu can actually stand and not get hit by Hulk’s . In fact, about half of Amaterasu’s grounded move list avoids this attack. Since Amaterasu’s airborne attacks are so fast, Hulk has trouble getting s.:h: out – so I recommend heavy use as an anti air, but nothing else.
Special note*: Strangely enough, when Amaterasu enters her standing stance (by landing from a jump, standing up from a crouch, ending an attack, or ending a dash), she has a few frames in which her stance is slightly higher than normal– during these frames, she can be hit by s..

Arthur:
Crouching state, all crouching attacks, and all Hypers can avoid . Only use as an anti-air.

Chris:
Chris cannot crouch under, but his c.:l: will cause Hulk to miss. I recommend using this carefully followed by Gamma Charge AA when grounded or often as an anti-air.

Chun-Li:
Chun-Li cannot crouch under s., but her c. and c.:h: will cause it to miss. On the ground, this is safe to use unless Chun-Li knows that these moves cause it to whiff. Can be used as anti-air.

C. Viper:
C. Viper cannot crouch beneath s., but all of her crouching attacks cause Hulk to miss. Use this as an anti-air only.

Dante:
Dante gets hit on c. and c.:h:, while his commonly used c.:l: poke and both dashes avoid this move. Because of this, I only recommend using this to stuff his IAD j.:h: and teleports.

Deadpool:
While his crouching state avoids Hulk’s , Deadpool gets hit during his c.:l: and c.. Because his crouch, c.:h: slide, and his forward dash avoid this move, I only recommend using this as an anti-air.

Dormammu:
Dormammu can crouch beneath, but if he gets hit if he’s performing any low attack. I would recommend using this attack to stop Dormammu’s close range offense (namely tri-jumps), but avoid it when Dormammu is on the defense.

Felicia:
Crouching state, all crouching attacks, and forward dash can avoid . Only use as an anti-air.

Iron Man:
Iron Man gets hit while crouching or perform any attack besides c.. This is a good long-range poke, so you’ll have to gauge how often Iron Man is using it as a poke. If he’s not using as an opener, then should be used often.

Jill:
Crouching state, all low normals, and teleport stance cause to whiff. Only use as anti-air.

Magneto:
Magneto can crouch beneath Hulk’s , but all of his crouching normals get hit. Because of this and because his tri-jump is so quick, I recommend heavy use of , though if you use it against him while he’s grounded, be ready to follow it with Gamma Charge (AA).
*Note: Magneto’s Hyper Grav ignores armor.

Phoenix:
Crouching state, all crouching attacks, and forward dash can avoid . Only use as an anti-air.

Ryu:
Ryu is another character in which his crouching state and c.:l: both get hit by Hulk. His c. and c.:h: can avoid , so you shouldn’t only use this on the ground if Ryu is not poking with c.. Can be used as anti-air.

**She-Hulk: **
She-Hulk gets hit while crouching, but not while performing her c.:l: and c.:h:. Since these are her most commonly used pokes – I recommend only using while she is airborne.

Spiderman:
Crouching state and all crouching normals can cause to whiff.

Storm:
While crouching, Storm only gets hit when performing c.:h:. Since this isn’t an opener, I only recommend using as an anti-air.

Super Skrull:
Super Skrull can crouch beneath , but his c., and c.:h: both get hit. His s.:l: is his most common opener, so you can actually get away with using this move against him. I’d recommend using it sparingly on the ground and regularly as an anti-air.

**Taskmaster: **
Taskmaster’s c., c.:h:, and both dashes can potentially avoid Hulk’s - though the dashes are extremely specific timing. Hulk can still use this as an anti-air any time that Taskmaster is near the peak of his jump (j.:h: is 2 hits, but one of them is too high to hit Hulk unless Taskmaster is near the ground). I wouldn’t recommend using this on the ground unless Taskmaster isn’t using a lot of his s. and is using c.:l: to attempt to open you.

Trish:
Trish can crouch beneath Hulk’s , but she gets hit on her c.:l: poke. Unfortunately, her c. has some long range and dodges the attack, so I’d have to recommend only using this attack as anti-air.

**Wesker: **
While Wesker’s crouching stance does not get under , his c.:l:, c., c.:h:, and forward dash all have the potential to cause a miss. I recommend only using as an anti-air.

Wolverine:
While crouching, Wolverine only gets hit if he’s doing c.. Since this generally isn’t an opener – I’d only recommend s. as an anti-air.

X-23:
Crouching state, all crouching attacks, and forward dash can avoid . Only use as an anti-air.

[Liquid]

No use recommended vs. the following characters

Doctor Doom:
Doom’s crouching state gets hit by , but c.:l: and c.:h: both get under Hulk. Because of this and Doom’s multi-hit j., I recommend only using this attack when Doom is doing foot-dive. Even then, if you have time to do s.:h:, do it instead.

Hsien-Ko:
Hsien-Ko can crouch beneath, but gets hit during c.:l: and c.. I don’t recommend using it as an anti-air because of her multi-hit j.:h:, but I do recommend using it on the ground unless she’s do a lot of s.:h:.

Morrigan:
Crouching state and all crouching attacks will avoid . Morrigan has a 5 frame multi-hit aerial attack, so I can’t recommend using this attack against her.

Shuma-Gorath:
While crouching, only gets hits while using c.:h:. I don’t recommend using against Shuma at all because of his low hit-boxes on the ground and multi-hit attacks in the air.

Tron:
Cannot crouch beneath. Many Tron players forget that she has multi-hit aerial attacks. If she is spamming j.:h: - use this, but otherwise, she has too many multi-hit attacks to recommend this.

Viewtiful Joe:
Crouching state and all crouching normals cause to whiff. Due to this and Joe’s multi-hit aerial attacks, I recommend not using this attack.

Zero:
Crouching state, all low attacks, and his ground teleports all dodge Hulk’s . Due to all of Zero’s multi-hit air and ground attacks, and his inability to hit Zero while he’s crouching, I can’t recommend the use of this move at any time.

[Slayerslice]

Use Gamma Charge H, H for +5 frames and it crushes low moves

[Noraa]

regualr gamacharge leaves you +5 on block too?

[Liquid]

regualr gamacharge leaves you +5 on block too?

Nah, he’s referring to Anti Air. You can cover your whiffed s.'s with Gamma Charge AA, especially if the move you’re trying to beat out is low (AA causes lows to miss) but it’s still good to know what characters cause s. to whiff b/c Gamma Charge AA is not the best follow-up if you hit with s., especially during situations in which they caused you to whiff with their c.:l: attack and their c. is not a low attack.

[Slayerslice]

I mean if they start ducking your standing M you could mix it up going with the AA gamma charge to crush their lows/or get advantage

[Faith_From_Hell]

Technically, you can use s.M against Morrigan as an anti-air but you have to make the attack meaty so her air S doesn’t tear through the armor. Since she’s not the fastest character, if you see her just fly up to you and you think she’s going to do an air S and there’s nothing forcing you to block or jump from her approach, you can do s.M early enough so that Hulk is ready to strike her. Make sure also that if she attacks, she intends to do it in front of Hulk and never directly above him as you might cross yourself up. Aside from that, you can never really use it on her unless she’s dumb enough to throw a fireball in your face or something. If she’s x-factored, forget it. Chances are, instead of just tearing through the armor, she’ll land from a j.S that hits once (in a crouched state - smallest hurtbox in the game) just as your attack becomes active. It does give you an opportunity to cancel s.M into say a gamma crush (though she could just do her DP super to avoid it perhaps).

Wiffing Hulk’s attacks can be a good way to bait (more than just using s.H - his command grab wiffing can be decent bait)

[Liquid]

Technically, you can use s.M against Morrigan as an anti-air but you have to make the attack meaty so her air S doesn’t tear through the armor. …Aside from that, you can never really use it on her unless she’s dumb enough to throw a fireball in your face or something.

[FONT=Helvetica]Yes, the meaty s. technically works against any character as an anti-air. The problem with using it this way is that using it this way usually causes the attack to be at maximum distance. This is a problem because unless you commit to hitting with it and follow with :s: without hit-confirming, you won’t get a combo. If you’re throwing this attack out against a multi-hit attack like Morrigan’s j.:s:, you’re putting Hulk at risk for very little reward. If you have enough time to do a meaty s., you’re probably better off doing Gamma Charge (Anti-Air). It also has armor, but starts up in 5 frames instead of 13.[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica][/FONT]

Wiffing Hulk’s attacks can be a good way to bait (more than just using s.H - his command grab wiffing can be decent bait)

Yes, thank you for posting this. I know I typed up a bit regarding this, but I guess I edited it out before finishing the post. I’m not sure why I did that, so thank you again for posting this. I usually bait a whiffed s. into Gamma Charge (Anti Air).