Hadn’t thought about that (hakan buffering slide after a whiffed st.lp). This can probably be beat with a dash low since he has horrible recovery/startup on most of his moves. slide goes under dash punches, but will probably get beat/CH by anything that goes low enough (dash low, smash, possibly OH but doubtful).
And the hakan uncrouchable oil dives and corner meaty throw O/S U2 loses to backdash. Yes he can punish a guessed backdash, but the throw telegraphs to some degree. Point-blank U2 will beat backdash though. Corner may leave you in range for close normals, so big punishes like cl.hk, cr.mp, etc.
are we looking for combos in this thread? making a complete OCD list of combos seems like something I could spend some time on. Would include AE combos.
Also, this whole thread is AE updated, yes? We should tag it as such in the title.
No, not AE updated, I’m planning on going through the matchups again and having AE notes, but i’m still looking for changes that REALLY change the matchup. There’s a lot of talk about how standing jab not hitting crouching ops changes the matchup, but that leaves maybe…Gief/T. Hawk. I mean they changed the Active frames on Ryu’s cr.mk so if it hits its ALWAYS a blockstring, but that’s really nit picky stuff.
I’m sure there are BIG changes that I haven’t thought of, or I haven’t noticed them. It’ll be easier to go through the changes when its on console though to be honest.
Combos would be nice, i dunno how much demand/use there would be for it, the stickied thread is out of date, but still completely valid. You wouldn’t happen to know the OH followups for Oni and Evil Ryu would you? (and confirmed OH FUs for the twins?).
Against Gief, his ex green hand on block knocks him back a further now…before you could do 3x jab, short, headbutt but now you can only do jab x2, short, headbutt PERFECTLY(or jabs, strong, headbutt if you can do that advanced combo) or else you will miss
About that overhead stuff on evil ryu and oni, good idea. However the AE machines are always busy at my arcade, so I don’t think I can help test that
overhead~c lk xx headbutt confirmed when I played against crouching oni. don’t have anything for evil ryu because no one likes him or maybe cause he sucks
For Yun and Yang, C HK only works after overhead on crouching opponent(as someone said before, tested and executed throughly)
Gotcha. Can’t believe I havn’t thought to test this out. Next time (in a couple days) I’ll be on it. Had an AE cab to myself and a friend and forgot to test this. Augh
Demon flip resets can be beaten by Jump Back Fierce or Crouching Fierce. The crouching fierce has to be pressed as soon as he “flips”. Usually this is the earliest time possible, except for close standing fierce punch, where you can wait a little. Don’t get reset.
Good stuff, 3nigmat1c. :tup: you were right about AE Rog. Makes me so sad. :sad: also just a small thing. In the OP it says PPKKK for U1 works on everyone in the corner. But it doesnt work on Abel. at least not always. I think KPKKK is what I use. He is weird.
As for Hawk. Jump fwd/bk HP beats Hawks options in the air. So if you see him jump just jump at him and FP. Should beat dive and most normals. His DP is so terrible to you can stand next to him after knocking him dow. And jump back early and FP his reversal DP and beat or trade with his EX DP. Sure block and punish is good but you can be proactive too.
Hmmm, are you sure about this? I haven’t done extensive research on this, but I remember this specifically because I lost a tournament match to an abel due to him dropping out of KPKKK in the corner. This was at Battle for the South no less!
I got all the corner juggles to work with Abel, it may be like the super juggle with guy/hakan where it really depends on what height you activate at. Like for T. Hawk, if you activate to early you go under him, but if you juggle the first hit, he ALWAYS juggles even though it looks like you’re going to slip under him during the juggle. in the corner
If you are 3/4 screen and HB him to the corner I think they all work. But if you are both right next to the corner he Rog always seems to slip under him and miss completely if I try PPKKK. It may be a height thing, but usually I just go with the K starter and either KKPKK or KPKKK. I can’t remember exactly which one but he never wiffs the first punch if is a K
come to think of it I never attempt to juggle Abel with PPKKK in a match.
I’m in the process of doing Fei Long, Makoto, and Cody matchups. What are you guy’s opinions on them and as far as strategy what do you look for?
Also I was considering doing punish vids, three characters at a time, it would just show punishable moves etc, it’d pretty much just be a companion (or so) to the matchups I already have. I wouldn’t put anywhere near as much time in them as the game mechanics vids, but it’d pretty much be a 3-minute mash up of character specific punish info. I don’t doubt its utility, but what do you guys think about the idea?
Updated Cody and Fei Long Matchup, Makoto on the way.
I’ve got a couple of idea to test out with cody, and that’s if I can punish ex.zonk, FADC backdash with ultra/super and if he has any viable ground buffer O/S that can punish backdashes from f+mp. I doubt it though. need to watch the Option-select cody video as well, dunno if it had anything useful/relevant.
ahh, ground buffer. It’s just like the f[media=youtube]vC71I7WsPvU"[/media]. You input the ultra while cr.mk is in its recovery (and make sure you use 3K/P) so on hit you don’t get a cancel into super. And then if they backdash (it whiffs), ultra comes out, and if it hits, nothing happens and you can link jab etc.
The meatiness is important from a matchup standpoint because of cr.mk’s lengthy actve and recovery frames. IF not hit really meaty, certain characters can block the U1 after a backdash, most likely Cammy, Chun, and Fuerte. But the characters who can’t probably have an 8f reversal whether it be a dp or an ultra that can beat meaty cr.mk.
Edit: You can do the same type of setup with meaty jab, but it’s infinitely harder IMO, i remember reading people doing meaty jab O/S ex.OH which at that distance would probably connect on most characters backdashes, it’s just the 5f of recovery that make it significantly difficult i think.
I’m going to add another section to the character specific combos, wanted to drop in an explanation of the theory and why it works, although I haven’t found a consistent example.
So ex.ru combos don’t have too much variation outside of cr.lp, cr.lk xx hp.hb or cr.lp, cr.mp xx whatever, or cr.lp, st.lp, cr.mp xx ex.ru/ds. It’s possible to combo into ex.high dashes like dash low and dash smash. So far i’ve gotten it it to work on cammy once, but i didn’t record it :(.
The reason this works is because of two things (1) cr.mp gives you a great deal more recovery than cr.lp/lk (6-10 vs 12-15) and (2) ex.dashes have faster startup at that distance than non-ex. So in general when you do an ex.ru loop combo, the distance from the character is static AFTER the first loop (this matters less in jab ru loop combos and more for this combo). So the startup for ex.smash ranges from 13-41f, and depending on how you start the ex.ru loop combo the distance you’re at after cr.lp, cr.mp will cause the startup of the ex.dash to be less than or equal to the recovery of cr.mp (and thus combo).
I’m having trouble finding the original post against cammy, but if my memory serves me correct, what I did was point blank (e.g. punish spiral arrow) cr.mp xx ex.ru, cr.lp, cr.mp xx ex.ru, cr.lp, cr.mp xx ex.smash
Applications are generally being able to push the op closer to the corner without having to burn ultra, maybe do a bit more damage and if using ex.dl you can perform a safe jump but doing an immediate jump for the most part since it’s a UKD. Also if you botch the combo you’ve got a 1-2f armored frame trap that breaks armor and is safe on block.
focus/ex dashes, auto-correct lp.hb (maybe). it’s got a lot of startup. By meter if you’re talking about her ex.sbk, safe jump that all day then punish with cr.mp into anything, it’s got 6f startup. You may also be referring to super…and then you pretty much can’t press any buttons that don’t leave you positive, mk.super starts up in 1+0 and pretty much covers 3/4 of the screen. A while back I had thought of baiting it out (after you fell for it once of course) with a dash straight FADC backdash which should cause her to burn it and then hit you once out of the air, maybe. I haven’t tested it, but with the really small window of time to do the reversal, don’t think a chun can “react” and decide not to, but they can just wait and then punish your backdash for sure.
Also i’m not sure how many invincibility frames it has, so it’s possible it can be frame trapped where it’ll trade, but it’s unlikely they’d fall for it or use it in a situation like that.
I think you want to steer the match in a way that’ll make her want to burn meter e.g. knocking down and jumping in. I believe you can jump in from neutral and if they’re timing is off can stuff/trade in rogs favor with ex.sbk and not give them much advantage outside of being knocked back 1/2 screen. Like with Gief’s lariat, if you jump in with j.fp and aim for the closer elbow so to speak, you can beat it clean unless they activate really late since it won’t hit him standing.
It’s all speculation though, i’m in a similar boat when chun’s get the life lead and sit on super. :<
