what is a good way to get Sakura off of you when she starts her frame safe tatsu spam? The biach is 12 ways kinda annoying when she starts her “chaputa” spam. As if the armor break wasn’t enough…
@Trini_Judoka What I usually do when Sakura starts spamming that safe tatsu, is I just block and wait until she attempts an OH or throw and tech/grab. On block for non-ex she’s negative, so you have the advantage and she still has to guess, it’s only a couple of frames so it’s a good thing and a bad thing. Blocking or neutral jumping are probably your best defensive options (neutral jump will most likely be beat by her cr.hp) while cr.lp is your best offensive options where even if she hits, it’ll most likely trade (on blocked non-ex) and reset the spacing. Don’t commit to any pokes with crazy startup/recovery because although her ex.dp comes out slow it has a shit ton of invincibility/blockstun.
And on the note of tatsus, the normal shoto tatsu can be whiff punished with TAP on its airborne recovery for a free juggle and U1/Super combo. You still have to guess but its a viable punish. Sakura’s isn’t easy to punish on whiff because of the arc involved, and I belive her recovery is grounded (and out of cr.lp range). But i haven’t tested anything with Sakura in training mode, so it’s just guesses at this point.
Also I had a little experiene with Yang and Yun in AE.
Yang’s U2 has no strike invincibility period, I did U1, Yang did reversal U2 and was still hit. Yun’s dashpunch seems to be impossible to backdash, but punishable on block (atm i don’t know if it has variable frame advantage like claws nerfed df+hk). And also Yuns U1 seemed to beat ex.hb. Like I did ex.hb on his wakeup and he did wakeup U1 and he beat it clean, looked to be while I was still in the air.
What DS said about followups to OH seems to be true for the most part. Every time I did an OH to cr.lk it didn’t connect on either of the twins, but i didn’t throw it out there that much nor do I really recall if it was standing or crouching. But I know a couple of times where the arcade is empty so i might have better opportunities to get some testing in. Undeadsato also mentioned punishing all dive kicks above the feet with dirty bull since they’re at least -2 on block unless they hit his feet.
Interesting find (maybe). An option-select against Abel that will force him to burn meter:
backthrow, 1x dash j.hk/hp back+cr.lk+cr.lp
This ONLY loses to ex.tt and breathless from what I tested. The jump-in is a meaty as well. Here’s a [media=youtube]7nUzhG-wWn8"[/media], it’s late so i didn’t feel like chopping it up, i’ll do it later.
[LIST]
[]non-ex cod gets grabbed, ex.cod eats the meaty, then gets grabbed.
[]non-ex roll gets stuffed on startup, ex gets grabbed
[]non-ex tt gets stuffed on startup
[]Super is blocked
[]Ultra 1 has really long startup, so you have to make a decision on reaction, whiffed throw will lose, (lows beat the ultra but because of landing frames even cr.lk has too much startup)
[]fs gets stuffed, ex.fs gets thrown.
[/LIST]
The idea came from Dafro a long time ago. I think the only way to be able to account for ex.tt is to do a feint (a 6f safe jump), this will allow you to still be in active frames when ex.tt is in its recovery. This will lose to ex.fs and still wins against ex.cod. Loses to U2 obv, but that can be safe-jumped as well, just not both…thus you can’t avoid ex.tt AND breathless as a wake-up reversal.
**late edit: the OS is kinda…bad in a sense. The meaty jump-in is really useful though (e.g. meaty jump-in, react to whatever he decides to throw out) since you can do a delayed cr.hk to catch backdashes, throw/cr.lp if you see him turn yellow etc. A whiff grabbed can be punished pretty hard with step-kick.
Nice to know we can punish the twins with that Dirty Bull.
Quick question. The Gief mu simply terrifies me. I can keep him away well enough but once he knocks me down I feel powerless. What I end up doing when he tries to cross me is burning meter with an ex dash punch to escape but sometimes depending on the timing of splash, the game reverses my direction and I’m sent right back into Gief.
Any alternatives for escaping this situation?
Had no idea of the grammatical errors in my post. damnit. lol
Block and risk a Jump if you think he’s going to SPD or block and wait for an opening to create space. using a dash punch to get away is ALWAYS risky. Meaty splashes are really nasty because they can splash, you ex away and absorb the hit(whatever direction), and then they can SPD/Super/Ultra1 and catch you as you’re going away. FADC backdash/backdash is an option since it’ll nullify any air buffers, but it’ll get beat by delayed attacks as well. Hp.hb might get you out of there, but i’m pretty sure he can green hand to chase and you run the risk of auto-correcting further into the corner.
That’s pretty much the reason(s) everyone will tell you to lame it out, and keep him honest with cr.hp, lp.hb, st.lp (at least in super) and MAX distance lp.ds. It’s a hard match in general, but its not in your favor when you get knocked down. Just get the life lead and let him come to you, he’s got a lot of ways, but without a knockdown its an uphill battle for him. There’s absolutely no reason to jump in on him unless he’s dizzy, or if you’re sure he’s going to try to AA lariat, so you can just j.hp about a character space in front of his head and you’ll beat him clean. Any meaty jump-ins will lose to an invincible spd/ultra, wakeup U2 isn’t so much an issue even though it has quick startup i think since he has to jump first.
Thanks 3nigmat1c. Much appreciated
Added Hakan MU Info.
More Hakan Info
Spoiler
Guard Low
[LIST]
[]No invincibility, just really low to the ground.
[]Easy to normal throw on reaction when in range.
[]Avoids all dash punches except dash low and OH.
[]If hit while he’s still in guard animation, it hits crouching, if in recovery, it hits standing. If using OH cr.mp xx hp.hb followup always works.
[]Normals that will hit (for CH if during animation) cr.mk, cr.hk
[]Guard low will avoid super/U1 uppers, and can cause balrog to pass over him and punish.
[]CH cr.mk, Ultra - You HAVE to use straights since he’s considered crouching after you connect.
[/LIST]
Throw Ranges
[LIST]
[]Unoiled lp.spd can’t reversal lp.ds, but oiled lp.spd and unoiled U1 can.
[*]Oiled ex.spd has strike invincibility.
[/LIST]
Oiling up changes this match in Hakan’s favor, quite literally his frame data and attack properties change. Hakan gets a damage boost to all of his attacks and gets increased range to all of his punch spds. He also slides forward with his command normals and can normal cancel his focus attacks as well as slide back and forth while oiled.
Most of Hakan’s normals leave him at a significant disadvantage when done point blank, and sometimes even at max distance. Hakan’s Normals that are at least -3: st.hk, cr.hk, cr.mk, cr.hp, f+mp, f+hp, f+hk
Just a note which may want to be added to the Rufus match - if the Rufus player is just mashing out the followups on MK you can punish (or go under) ALL of the options with LP DS, it will beat the sweep, trade or beat the mid hitting version, and go directly under HK and allow you to punish with any combo.
The caveat here is that if the Rufus player is delaying their follow up at all LP DS will lose to every option.
For the Honda match - Rog’s U2 is a clean punish on any blocked butt slam.
For the M. Bison match - blocked PC which goes through you can be auto-correct U1’d.
For the Claw match - jump back mp is a very good tool against his wall dives on reaction, if you time it correctly his attacks will either completely whiff (and he won’t really have an answer to your whiff) or you will hit him at the arc of his wall jump and hit him during startup of either of his options.
Thanks for the info, i’ll be sure to add it to the front page post, or an auxilary post if its not already there. I make a auxiliary posts that i link to on the front page in case it’s too much space to include it or it’s not an easy/practical punish.
Found/discovered/rehashed making Fei Longs Chicken Wing whiff with crouching normals. You can buffer in motions and auto-correct specials after you make the move itself whiff It works with tatsus too, but that’s a bit less useful since it’s hard to tell when they’re going to be grounded.
cr.lp - great to follow up with cl.hk combo or ex.OH (he’s considered standing since he’s still in recovery)
cr.mp/cr.mk - great to buffer in U1/ex.oh
cr.hk - lots of recovery, good to buffer in U2, bad for Auto-correct U1
The vid shows two situations where i mistimed, just to show that he can block/jump out of it IF its done too late. The punish is also distance dependent, not so much with ex.oh/Ultra, but very important with U2.
[media=youtube]vC71I7WsPvU[/media]
My boy Gravehunter mains Hakan,
Keep yourself at of grab range by peppering him with jabs. If he slides just do standing or cr.mk. If you have super meter, if you see him slide, st.mk xx super for nice damage. If he ex slides you can ex hb on reaction to go over his head. You just have to be careful here though because he may sweep after this. If he knocks you down and is oiled he can murder you. He can frame trap via his oil dive and if he has you afraid he can then focus and go for oil rocket to position you in the corner. Be very wary when combo-ing him as he can grab or ultra you if you mistime your strings.
I’ll post a bit more later.
Can anyone help me with the THawk matchup? I have alot of trouble against good hawk players. I can’t jump in or I get hit with his SRK every time or even worse his ultra 2, I try to AA his condor dives with cHP which works okay but I can’t seem to deal any damage to him as dash punches are also unsafe and result in SPD.
So basically I just try to stay away from him but he eventually gets in with a condor spire or empty jump SPD which gives him the life lead and I’ve had it. Also his tick SPD traps are very annoying for me, I usually try to jump away but often this gives him a free sHK.
I really suck at this matchup and all suggestions are very welcome!
Don’t focus too much on AAing the condor dives, block and then punish with ANYTHING… I literally mean ANYTHING it has 22 frames of recovery. Past that basically zone the same way you would against Gief except without the free jumpins.
Dash punches aren’t unsafe unless you’re using something other than jab DS or you’re hitting really deep, this is pretty much identical to the Zangief match.
Don’t bother jumping away to get out of tick throws, just backdash. The catch to this is that if he’s quick (or doesn’t throw) I’m pretty sure Ex Condor Spire will catch your backdash. Would need to test this out a bit further as this is just going off memory.
@Gillette and nyarlathotep, yes and no. Condor dives and jump-ins can be easily AA’d with a specific strength headbutt or cr.hp. When you block condor dives, he’s negative, but if he whiffs it, he recovers as soon as he touches the ground and can buffer in an spd/super/U1 etc. In this case, you’re in a really bad situation because you can jump out of a buffered SPD (if you hold up) but he can condor spire your backdash (probably), srk/u2 you’re neutral jump, jump-back etc. So using cr.hp, lp/hp.hb to AA all of his condor spires is a really good idea since it beats it clean every time. If you do take the risk of blocking a condor dive, be sure to punish it hard with an ex.ru loop combo/ultra/hp.ds xx super. I think he can space condor dives to make headbutt whiff, but i’m also pretty sure it’s an obvious spacing.
T.Hawk as a a grappler controls the air, so stay on the ground and don’t jump. IMO T.Hawks normals are ass and he sucks pretty hardcore on the ground as far as getting in on Balrog. Just don’t be too aggressive he does a shit-ton of damage per hit.
Random Notes on Yun/Yang
[details=Spoiler]Random stuff I noticed while playing AE
[LIST]
[]Yang’s U2 can’t chase (e.g. U1 to get out of the corner), but auto-corrects very nicely.
[]Can probably dash U1 a non-feint palm from mid - 3/4 screen. I believe Yun’s recovers slower than Yang’s; may not be possible with Yang.
[*]Yuns dive-kick has significant recovery on whiff, I was able to land auto-correct U1 in the corner multiple times with meaty dive-kick pressure.
[/LIST][/details]
Updated Ken Matchup
More Notes on Ken
[details=Spoiler]Kara throw setups are hard to avoid, especially if he ticks (on hit or block) with moves with positive frame advantage and not much pushback. You cant CH startup in a setup because he goes active before you, you can backdash/neutral jump, tech/invincible (with charge, not TAP). In this case backdashing is important to reset the distance. With characters with walking frame traps like Cody, walking back will make a throw whiff, but not ken’s kara throw.
Ken does have an “unblockable” ambiguous crossup that can be avoided but it’s difficult to impossible.
IF ken combo’s in to hk/ex.tatsu it’s best to block and react, however hard that may be. IF he mashes shorts it will CH jabs and he’s in range to do a couple of moves and then a kara throw. He has to guess somewhat so blocking and reacting may give you an opportunity to read your opponent. Getting normal thrown is a bit better than eating another hk combo because its less damage AND you’re not looking into another ambiguous setup where you have to make a quick decision.
[/details]
Sry its been a while since i’ve updated. Been working on article on safe jumps and meaties and it’s arduous to say the least, hopefully it’ll pay off in terms of what I learn and what the article informs everyone else of.
**Hakan MU will be updated, haven’t looked into Balrogs options against uncrouchable oil dive setups…probably as simple as lp.hb/super/ultra, but we’ll see.
Updated Guile Matchup
For the Hakan dive setup, use a hb or ex headbutt.
Careful, he can bait it and HURT YOU
Updated Game Mechanics section
yeh, ex.dive does 250 damage oiled. It’s a good thing that Balrog has a decent amount of tools to keep him from getting the knockdown, and thus avoid the situation all together.
When playing footsies against Hakan watch out for him buffering the slide with standing jab. If you try to dashpunch, this will be counter hit and then you will be combo’d into an oki set up. (this happened to me in AE but i’m sure it applies here)
Makoto Info:
After a blocked hayate you can standing jab > cr.rh combo. After that you have some frame trap/pressure opportunities.