"Gettin' that Bike $!" AE Balrog Match-up Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
201

I think all of the resets are useful, one that I’ve done is AA cr.hp, lk.smash, so it’s a meaty (because of the opps invincible recovery) and it breaks armor. At the right ranges, I could see it being safe on block. Resets are useful though because of the mind-game, the mileage I get out of TAP to ex.hb is a testament.

For example against Abel, let’s say that you AA with cr.hp for the rest, then you perform an attack. The most likely way for him to beat it is to ex.tt, so if he’s meterless, he can attempt to roll (which can be stuffed by a meaty), or block, which can be unpunishable. Or if he has meter, what if you go for headbutt instead, then ex.tt fails.

Any type of quick reset forces your opponent to think and out of that they either decide to guess, or react. If you have an opp who guesses, you can capitalize. I think the resets work much better in our case, because everyone has seen them before, they’re not new. AFAIK, no character has a single offensive option that will beat every option Boxer has after a reset with appropriate charge.

edit: the cr.hp to lk.smash, isn’t a reset :< well not in the context of what Jay Wang was talking about, but it has it’s uses as well.

202

Here are some quick tidbits about what you can do with the Sagat matchup. I uploaded a vid to show some of the punishes and setups in action. The AE matchup is different since he doesn’t have to rely so much on his projectile zoning and can zone up close and mixup with tiger knee pressure. I’ll jump on this soon as far as a full matchup goes. Just keep in mind his ex.tk is easily positive on block if he does it at range and you block.

[media=youtube]GOoZEpP6jX4[/media]

[Matchup] Youtube Playlist is a go! check out the descriptions.

203

How to pressure Yun on his wake-up - What you need to know:

I was in the lab earlier, and I was experimenting a bit with the Rog vs. Yun wake-up game. Yun has some decent wake-up options (upkicks and a good backdash), so you’ll still have to guess correctly and take some calculated risks if you want to go on the offense against him during his wake-up. In any case, it’s always better to know what your opponent’s options are, and how to beat them, hence this post. :slight_smile:

(Only options that have startup invincibility are listed here. Everything not listed loses to wake-up meaties).

Non-ex Dragon Kicks:
Yun’s non-ex dragon kicks have slow startup and are reasonably easy to safe jump. Here’s what you need to know about them:

Move properties with reference to the Balrog matchup:
-LK is the fastest, but Rog can duck under it. It will sometimes cross over (and thus remove your back charge, making heavy damage punishes harder) if you’re crouching point blank.
-HK is the slowest version. Rog can not duck under the first hit, but the second hit will whiff if you’re crouching. Watch out as this move will usually carry Yun quite a long distance away, so if you’re not expecting it, it can be difficult to punish.
-MK is somewhere in between, but unlike the other two it doesn’t appear to have invincible startup, and it loses to wake up meaties. You probably won’t see it that much.
-They can’t be FADCed.

Safe offense options:
If you expect a non-ex dragon kick reversal, use a safe jump or safe meaty jab setup and block high afterwards. If you block high, LK version won’t cross over so it should be easier to do a higher damage punish combo (ex RU loop). It will also block the 2nd hit of the HK dragon kick, which should push you back a bit farther, making it easier to punish. Against a meterless Yun, meaty safe jumps/jabs will beat all his options except blocking and back dash.

Punishment options against HK dragon kick:
-HK dragon kick is punishable on block with auto-correct ultra or super. If you have no meter, you can walk in and do: cs. mp, cr. lp, cr. lk/mp xx (combo-ender of choice).

EX Dragon Kicks:
Yun’s ex dragon kick starts up in 4 frames and has invincibility. While theoretically it can be safe jumped, it’s quite difficult to do in practice because Rog lacks a consistent 4 frame safe jump setup.

Offense options:
As mentioned above, you can safe jump Yun’s EX Dragon Kicks, but doing so consistently is difficult unless you’re a Jedi or otherwise have God-like timing. So here are some other alternatives:

-delayed throw OS: Do a delayed throw on his wake-up. This should beat ex dragon kick (you’ll block it), blocking (you’ll throw him), and should keep you safe from wake up normal throws (you’ll tech them). This setup will lose to non-ex dragon kicks and Yun’s command grab however.

-cr. jab crouch tech OS: Same as above, but instead of a throw you do a cr. jab plinked with lk.

Back Dash:
Yun’s back dash can be OSed by buffering a sweep into your safe jump or safe meaty jab. You have to read the back dash correctly however, as non-ex dragon kicks will blow the OS up.

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204

very nice, so Yun can only punish safe jumps and meaties with meter, well only with his ex.dragon kick, his Ultra’s are too slow, but I’m pretty sure he can punish a meaty with wakeup super into a short or something like that. On the topic of non-ex.DK’s blowing up a jab O/S sweep and a safe jump O/S sweep, this shouldn’t be the case with the right safe jump or if the meaty is timed right, since Rog can still block during the viper safe jump O/S cl.hp and she reversals with hp.tk which has the same startup as yun’s hk.dk.

I’m still trying to find a good example (and counter-example), but attacks that have really long invincible startup (ex.messiah kick, boxer’s ex.headbutt, rose ex.soul spiral) without a screen freeze can blow up non-invincible whiff buffer option-select (like meaty jab O/S Sweep). Seems to happen easier with a ground buffer versus an air buffer. I’ve had varying results, I know from the air there’s two frames or so between the jump-in and the buffered attack where you’re effectively in an offensive standing position and can’t block. That’s usually when they get blown up (if it’s an invincible buffer).

205

You could press KKK or PPP as your safe jump meaty attack and if the DP wiffs over your head just release and cancel to Super if you have it. Of course there are disadvantages to this, but it’s another option.

206

Yun’s ex upkicks can be punished with auto correct ultra for full hits. It doesnt have to be reversal timing, just as long as you input it before charge wears off. Without ultra, yun will always be in sweep range whether it crosses up or not so thats the ideal safe punish.

207

Well, it’s also possible to OS with fs. hp. I forgot to mention that in my post. The payout won’t be as good as the sweep OS though.

I think the reason it gets blown up is because hk dragon kick hits late if you’re crouching, causing the sweep to come out.

@PumpkinBomber:
Against Yun, you can punish blocked dragon kicks on reaction, no need to do anything fancy with negative edge. :slight_smile:

Thanks for the feedback everyone! I’ll update the post later.

208

yeh, i think so, since all but mk is invincible for some time period.

I was thinking about this today:

Certain jumping attacks by characters have hard knockdown properties when you air-to-air, so when you trade they still get a UKD. So when you AA characters like Juri and Dudley, they can do that jump-in and instead of getting trade headbutt where you flip out and can juggle ultra, you just get knocked down. I believe it’s Juri’s j.hk where she goes straight down with her foot, and dudley’s j.hk where he hits with the elbow.

Also wondered if anyone knew of a way to get out of Seth’s chip trap after UKD, where he does a meaty boom, then FADC forward Ultra 2. He has a similar one with Super (but this hits) where he throws a boom then activates super while you’re on your way down.

209

nice write up

if you have backcharge you can do meatie cr.mk and buffer ultra for option select or just ex rush upper.

210

some random tidbits i found last night:
[LIST]
[]You can low profile El Fuerte’s tostada press with cr.mp and cr.hk, these are only with the ones that are flying at a almost completely diagonal direction and cross up, regular ones that go straight down or go straight down at at an angle this doesn’t work on (although those are easier to block and punish).
[]Oni can be grabbed out of the startup of this fireball, and the claw swipe can also be grabbed (I grabbed him out of ex.swipe as he was crossing me up. It’s really safe on block and I saw a couple of raging demon setups from blocked swipe. (it’s at most -1/-2). Also Oni can’t FADC his blocked DPs, so there’s rewards for blocking up close. Also do your best to tech throws, although he’s supposed to be a zoner (i think he’s not, since his fireball doesn’t go full screen uncharged), since fwd throw puts you full screen.
[*]Yang is so much scarier than Yun, without contest.
[/LIST]

211

i think yun and yang are both equally scary, its just that yun kills you faster

212

3n1gmat1c,

Thanks for that info on Oni. Gonna practice up on that. Also against him, if you he blocks or you whiff a hb upclose, he can punish with u2

213

I noticed there is no info for Dee Jay match up in the OP, so here is something:

  1. Dee Jays like to bait jump ins with air slashes and counter them with a slide or air to air moves. Sometimes j.HK beats the slide, but generally it is better to advance carefully. Also empty jumps works sometimes and the slide gets blocked. Then you can usually punish it with c.LP.
  2. Dee Jay’s upkicks are great so jumping in when he has a charge is pretty dangerous. Otherwise his normal antiairs are not that reliable so j.HK should usually do the job.
  3. Sobat kicks can be punished with s.LP although LK Sobat can be harder to punish.
  4. Knee kicks can be difficult to antiair with c.HP, but it is possible. You just need good reactions. Also LP headbutt and s.MP works too.
214

What you say is pretty much on the money. Deejay is a bit different in AE, his cr.hk isn’t as good as far as range goes but he can still chase the slashes with them and maintain back-charge. the knee is a pain to deal with, it’s REALLY hard to AA with cr.hp as it’s too slow. Keep in mind that the knee is active until it hits the ground and is an OH in comparison to Guys elbow which isn’t but is similar. Here’s a set of two between me and two other Deejays. There aren’t any notes in the description (yet), but seeing it in action may help you guys come up with some other ideas about the matchup.

Also his cr.hk will low profile high dashes (straight and upper) so, you can’t ex.dash through any of his air slashers. You can poke his cr.hk (if he does it preemptively) with your cr.hk at max distance and trade with the slasher, but it’s in Balrog’s favor. (Kind of like sim’s trade with st.fp and ryu’s hadouken).

215

main priority in the deejay matchup is to walk and block DJ to the corner. From there you limit all of his options with reaction.

216

Also I haven’t tested it, but according to frame data, Rog can punish a blocked far s.HP/HK with a KKK Ultra. They should be -9 on block so it should be possible, right?

217

i’m almost 100% sure its possible, but i doubt you’ll ever get the opportunity to land said punish, I could definitely see st.lp. But the way the move works, it seems like a max distance poke or really weird AA, up close it doesn’t have much use, and if it hits on later active frames (which given the animation is more likely), it’d be -8 to -5. The recovery (23 frames) makes it fooder for ex-dashes and reaction ultra/headbutt though, and it’s not cancelable, most likely not FADCable either…

218

Alright, updated some of the documents on the front page:

Character specific combos and resets (xlsx)
Boxer Overhead followup (pdf)

Also brief finds about oni’s swipe:
[LIST]
[]All strengths can be grabbed on reaction.
[]only light is safe on block, medium/heavy is at least -3, ex is at least -7
[*]Also ex.swipe is but easy to auto-correct Ultra on reaction
[/LIST]
Also found something that might be useful…a blocked/hit OH puts you at maximum distance for boxer’s focus attack. Also Oni can be hit crouching with OH FA release. You can also do the following on Oni: j.hk/j.hp, cr.mk, cl.mp xx ex.ru etc.

219

The more I play against Yun the more I realize how amazing c.mp is against his divekicks. Unless he’s triangle jumping point blank you will either hit him out of it or it will trade and stop his pressure.

220

Quick question about the Makoto OS on the last page: when it says “j.HP buffered normal throw”, how exactly does one do the throw in the j.HP / what is the timing?

I’m new to OSes, so I apologize if this is a dumb Q