General Defense (Not-so beginner?)

Newbie Saikyo Dojo
1

Hey gang,

Just so we know what the context is, here are the games I play:

GGXrd/#Reload, Third Strike, Vampire Savior, KOF13

Also this will be a longer post.

(1) I don’t really have a particular question but questions/frustrations. Basically I notice that I’m attracted to characters who don’t have good defensive options but who rely on varied mixup offense. They’re the most fun and creative to me (I-NO, Makoto, Buletta, Vice/Sheng). Most of these characters don’t have AAs or good reversals so playing defense really just means learning to block and tech throws a lot. Which is fine, since I thought it would teach me defense a little faster than playing another character since I know I don’t have other kinds of options.

That being said, my defense kinda sucks. In Xrd its “okay” since it’s really hard to throw people who are guarding so I can just FD or block until they get far away enough or try to poke through a slow overhead or something. Most of the strings people use in this game aren’t that various so depending on the matchup I don’t have too much trouble.

In the other games, however, it’s super hard. Especially 3s, where Makoto’s only legitimate option on wakeup is hold down-back. I’m susceptible to tick throws, overhead links, delayed strings, etc. There have been games where I’ve been beaten just from getting tick thrown by Ryu and then anticipating a throw that doesn’t happen, being wrong, and getting punished.

**My philosophy has been this for wakeup: block low unless you can spot an overhead, then block high. If you don’t get your guard tapped within a reasonable amount of time and they are close to you, throw. If they aren’t close, wait for something. **

Besides wakeup, I also find that in general I can’t seem to wrap my head around what constitutes defense in neutral game. Makoto definitely suffers a lot from people who neutral jump her or jump in against her because if they empty jump and they aren’t in throw range they’re pretty much safe. Or if they jump when I just finish a close string and I have no close AA so I have to just eat an aerial or hope they don’t empty jump throw. If I have the momentum then it isn’t so bad as long as I don’t mess up my strings. But when it comes to footsie range type stuff, I find that it isn’t so easy and if I do something bad they get in close and I’m forced to play what feels like rock paper scissors with block/throw tech.

Another example is KOF where the whole point of the game is to push people in the corner where you can abuse short hop --> empty/low/overhead

So my question is, how do I become more consistent at blocking and recognizing opportunities for throw tech? Is it really character / matchup dependent and knowing the common ways people tick? Or are there things to look for like distance? Do I have to know where the holes are in people’s offense to be able to do anything? Or do I just need more patience (which doesn’t work most of the since I can get tick thrown). Am I looking at defense wrong? Should I be looking at specific situations instead of a general approach?

2

KOF13 at least, hops are typically reactable if you’re on point. So stay low, switch to high block when they hop, switch back down again. Also, in general against getting thrown, don’t try to react to the throw, but the preceding action. Like against a typical cr.B, cr.B, run, grab. You react to the run with your tech, not the throw itself. That gives you the extra processing time needed. You should also try to use guard cancel rolls and guard cancel CDs to get out of dodge. Those system-wide defenses are there for a reason, just as in GG.

All in all, thougg, GG, VSav and KOF13 are all games where you just don’t really want to be on defense, period. Otherwise you’re stuck in pressure that more often than not will kill you. It’s best to try figuring out ways to head off people’s attempts to get at you - challenge their approach, or esp. in KOF13, just get the hell out of the way. Not being there to get hit is a perfectly valid form of defense.

Amazing game taste, btw :smiley:

3

In KOF Vice and Shen have some of the scariest anti-airs in the game, meter permitting. Any anti-air from Vice, jab or otherwise, can turn into a lot of damage with her EX Sleeve. While she doesn’t necessarily have great anti-airs, the threat of getting anti-aired from her is greater than most characters. Shen is similar, if he can anti-air with QCF kick or punch, both of which are the perfect height for stopping hops, then he can connect with a super. People will stop hopping at you real fast if they take 300 damage each time. Both of those characters also have 1-frame command grabs and invincible reversals that travel a good distance horizontally. If they’re pressuring you up close on your wakeup too much, command grab them to show them they can’t do that. For all but 3 characters in KOF, throws are primarily meant to get you to stop blocking rather than deal a significant amount of damage. They deal around 10%, and then put you in a bad situation. Depending on the character, also, some might be more quick to use throws. Kyo’s throw gets him a hard knockdown and a nice mixup with his hop down C on your wakeup while Iori’s doesn’t allow him to continue pressure. So while Iori would still use throws for the purpose of getting you to stop blocking, Kyo would be more likely to use a throw because it provides a greater reward, if that makes sense.

On defense, ideally you shouldn’t just be reacting to things your opponent does. In KOF you can react to hops if you’re on point, but preemptively throwing out a jab when you expect a hop is a very safe way of keeping your opponent from hopping and demands significantly less buffering and attention from you. “Defense” isn’t just blocking mixups or teching throws. It can be poking someone out of the startup of a move or action, avoiding the bad situation entirely like Komatik said, or any number of things so long as it involves preventing your opponent from successfully attacking you.

4

Makoto definitely has more legit options than wakeup block.

Low short hayate
guard jump
OS between low parry karakusa or ex tsurugi
Stand strong

And if they are tick throwing you you can block the tick then hold up to get out.

And while it’s not an option you should be using a lot, sometimes wakeup parry into karakusa is good just to make them believe you’ll do it.

Makoto doesn’t have great defense but they shouldn’t be able to do whatever they want. Be willing to make it scary if they’re getting greedy sometimes, and guard jump out if you have the opportunity.

People say “just block” but there’s more to good defense than that.

Also if they’re neutral jumping these are all legit options
dash under
neutral or back jump rh
stand strong (cancel into ex fukiage if they parry)