Gen Shenanigans Thread!

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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I tried to expand Warlike’s Oga post in those jab reset cross-ups. It’s not 100% complete as I did not put in all the situations, but it can give you a basic idea on what I’m trying to find.

In the following chart, if it didn’t work, I put N. If it did work, then I put the timing of jab/strong.

earliest - After c.LK, you’re getting the jab/strong out right after recovery. After an Oga, you’re hitting them with your jab/strong’s 2nd active frame, but not the 1st. (You can still hit in the 1st active frame and make it out though)

early - After c.LK, it’s usually when the opponent is starting to fall. After an Oga, you’re hitting them when your head meets with the opponent’s head

late - After c.LK, it’s when the opponent is falling to the ground. Usually it has almost the same timing as early. After an Oga, you’re hitting them when the opponent’s head is between your shoulder to waist

latest - Right before the opponent touches the ground

lenient - You can do it at any timing and still cross up. Usually you’ll not whiff regardless of which timing you get the normal out.

just don’t whiff - Just don’t whiff lol. Only applies to Guy because there’s a tendency to whiff your jab after c.LK.

Sorry for the crappy bold text, but I just learned how to import an excel sheet to publisher.

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/4884/genxup.png

As you can see in the picture, it only deals with a close range c.LK and I’m still working on max range. You can connect a close range c.LK after a jump-in, after a focus crumple, or as a random meaty cuz it’s active for a long time lolz.

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I’ll add that to the OP if that’s ok with you.

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Please go ahead xD. The more info we compile in the first post the better. O wait you did already.

EDIT: I forgot to mention this in the sheet. “After KKK c.LK Oga cross-up” setup and “After a non cross-up Oga” setup are repeatable by themselves, though I don’t think you’ll want to do the same thing more than twice.

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speaking of oga’s (and thanks for all that sexy ass oga cross-up lab work Street11/kruldar!) Whenever I play online versus another Gen, ( I typically main Ken or Fei Long) I noticed a lot of other Gen players Oga->ceiling drop like freaking crazy. Is this hard to counter with some characters? I srk the shit out of it when I am playing Ken and I tend to hit it most of the time. Just curious as to why people think this is so safe… Is there different recovery on ceiling drops than on normal oga’s? how about from neutral oga’s? (the dive kick looking oga)

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It makes them lose back charge and it looks freakin cool :looney:.

But srsly, IMO it’s not necessarily safe compared to other follow-ups. I guess you can make it safer by timing it well on wake-up, but afaik it’s still punishable by reversal SRK on block. Also, some ppl who don’t know Gen at all don’t seem to know that you need to hold back regardless of which follow-up Gen does (except for a few cross-up situations on the super close), I think this is the main reason that ppl keep abusing the unsafe move. If they know how to block properly I would never try it. However, if they try to do a wake-up reversal, I think I can get a few hits in without using a cross-up setup.

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@HAMMER FRENZY You can fake out an SRK or some other reversal if gen has room to drop down at the wall. Leaving you punnishable depending on the strength and recovery of your reversal and generating Gen EX bar.

Furthermore if he can condition you to try to use focus Oga focus.

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Oga ceiling drop is pretty much only used to test out your opponent or give him the final blow with chip damage.

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Just tested to see how unsafe ceiling straight drop on block was. I was able to block and punish with reversal U1 with Ryu. I guess it would be at least -11 for characters with an average height if it’s not used as a meaty.

Edit: From my experience you can make any Oga follow-up as safe as -3, except for super close which I couldn’t test.

I made a mistake on the chart I wrote. There is a cross-up setup to Honda after a regular Oga (or a ceiling jump), follow-up being c.MP xx LK Oga near kick, where you have to connect at the earliest timing. It’s repeatable.

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Here’s the fixed version of my first chart + the second chart with 3 more setups:
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1016/ogacrossup1.png
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/401/ogacrossup2.png

I explained the timing of the earliest~latest above. However, the easiest way is just memorizing when to hit.
mid range c.LK can be archived by:

  1. Focus crumple, then hitting them with c.LK as soon as their heads hits the ground
  2. crane s.LP xx c.LK after a deep jump-in

The above 5 setups (since the 2nd one is AFTER a cross-up setup) with 4 options are, from what I can see, the only ones that are ever possible in a real match (unless you can do a s.LP xx Oga in all that pressure), so if you happen to connect one of those, and the opponent’s character has a setup in the chart, then it wouldn’t hurt to try it. You’re mostly safe from the opponents moves (exception: Gief’s mashed out lariat) and if they happen to block, then i’m afraid you’re open for punishment. (I think it’s at least -6)

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I’ve just made a weird discovery… i have no idea what to make of it. I was in the training room and in Mantis, I have NO idea what I was doing but I was just mashing throw over and over and over (no reason, just tapping) and I noticed every now and again he was getting closer, I know he has a little reach on his throw but he was closing the distance not just step in step back. I’ve never noticed this and not seen it raised up. I’ll let you older and wiser people check this shiz nizzley out.

Aha! I think i just figured it out haha, I just discovered he has a kara throw off of light kick, it’s really easy to do :open_mouth: i think it covers pretty much exactly the same distance but if I’ve discovered this all by myself I’m happy :slight_smile: really easy to do as well. Alright yeah just this second I’m doing it and it’s so much easier!

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On the question earlier about ex.oga, it doesn’t have any invincibility, but it is very fast. Point blank reversal ex.oga can avoid ultra’s that are around 10 frames. I’m sure there are some limitations, but for example, if ryu does Ultra point blank you can ex.oga to the closest wall and near/far kick and avoid his ultra all together. Otherwise it is a waste of meter.

Also I’ve found that when the op is mid screen, and you do an Oga to their wall and far kick, you can stick out bnb (M) st.mp, st.mk etc, or (M) cr.mk xx hands etc as a simple block string or to catch their attempted punish. Obviously a no-no against bison with U2 (until they make it a charge move), but against some characters it’s a decent mixup and may setup mind games for later cross-ups since Gen travels near their head.

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I’m pretty sure it’s as fast as any other Oga, it’s just that EX goes through any object that is blocking your way to the wall, unlike HK Oga, which can be prevented from going to the far wall with jump back. Plus, while it lost its strike invincibility, it retained throw and projectile ones.

I’m afraid I’m not sure about what you meant with the second paragraph. So you fly over their head without hitting them and stick those normals out? That’s the only way I can interpret it since Gen is always in disadvantage when Oga is blocked.

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i guess if you use heavy oga you’d be back in time for tea :slight_smile: and also back in time for the punish, since the Oga crossup video i’ve been using it a lot more trying to catch cross ups but my 2 main opponents are chun li and guile and i have no idea how to set them up, best i’ve found is heavy gekiro for chun li. I’m hurt nobody has commented on my 2 button kara throw! i was proud of that! :smiley:

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I meant whiff a far oga from the opposite wall. It’s a mind game in the sense, that you mess up their back-charge, change your ground position and if they block it may give them false confidence if you go for a cross-up oga later in the game. By changing your ground position I mean that if you’re full screen and you mk oga to the opposite wall, you’re now at 3/4 screen. It’s just an idea, something to use mixing up the different jump arcs and walking speeds that go with the different stances.

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Sorry for skippin your post Sylver. Yes, he does travel a little forward after each grab along with some of the other characters (like Dan). While this doesn’t help with your throwing range, it will help your opponents into reaching your whiffed body, I think.

Like you said, s.LK kara throw travels quite a lot. It’s right behind s.MK, and I think is equal to s.HK and s.HP.

Ah, I now see what you mean. Ty for explaining.

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A main flaw in my Gen game is that I use crane so much, but the dive kick is so good! I can stay in crane and perform totally fine, Oga’s are incredible bait. Just wish I knew more about the distances required for crossing them up :frowning:

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A few things:

Guile’s crossup oga potential sucks. You’re better off safe jumping or meaty crossing him up on knockdown, though I think I had found at least one reliable setup to use against him
I’ve been finding more situations where I can get punished for whiffed crossup oga attempts. It’s definitely not something abusable, but the setups still serve a purpose and are great to know, especially against characters with no great punishment options for attempting those setups.

Safe jumps. Elaborating
-Adon’s faster wakeup and other characters’ whacky wakeup hurtboxes complicate doing this. If you’re having trouble following me try performing these on another character.
-after forward throw, most of the cast can be safe-jumped by dashing forward twice and neutral j.fierce. Some cast-members can only be safe-jumped with mantis fierce. Others will only be safe-jumped by crane fierce. For some with craptastic reversals it’s both.
-after PPP c.hk OR back throw, most of the cast can be safe-jumped by waiting a split second before jumping. I find it helps to hold a direction then try to jump before you actually see Gen move (this delays it just a few frames, long enough to make it a safe jump rather than an empty jump). For other characters with slower wakeups and/or whackier hitboxes it seems you should actually wait for Gen to move a hair before jumping.
–ADDENDUM: I thought I was able to safe jump a few cast members with PPP c.hk OR back throw, then just crane j.mk at them as soon as you can without delaying. Yes, I could block their reversal and yes, it meatied whatever other move they tried to do. However when I took control of the character and tried to just block the j.mk, the j.mk would completely whiff them; no hit, no block, nada. I noticed the same problem with the crossup oga setups: it LOOKS like a safe oga crossup on “Stand…Auto Block” but if you take control of the character and try to block the oga it never even touches them. Just food for thought when testing these…be careful. The best way to test any setup is to record it with Gen, playback, and try blocking it with the other character.

Cheers and happy Gen’ing

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Hmm never really knew about his safe jumps i’m ashamed to say. But this should help you all out in matchups like honda. Option select crane ultra will grab his headbutt. Although i’d rather use mantis ultra as it would also catch backdash but he’s one of the crane safe jump characters :sad:

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I share your shame. I’ve been safe jumped a google plex times since this new one came out and only recently started exploring how to return the favor. Little did I know that Gen actually has some ridiculously easy setups. I’m also ashamed I’ve only recently started looking into option selects (beyond crouch lp+lk).

I tried your OS against Honda and <3 it. I think it even caught his backdash too when I threw him in the corner. If you use HK super it will catch backdashes regardless of where he is on the stage, as well as headbutts and sumo slams. Even honda’s super and ultras can’t deal with the safe jump so you’re still safe. His only wakeup option when you’ve got super stocked is to block or get hit by the j.hp, lest he gets crane super’d (or worse if he tries to super/ultra you and you block it).

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moar safe jump setups:
Cammy: forward throw, KKK s.hk, PPP j.fierce
Blanka: forward throw, KKK s.hk, PPP j.fierce
Gen: forward throw, KKK c.hk, KKK j.mk

frame perfect or else you get whacked. double tap or plinking the HK comes in handy here